Kodak XTOL : prewashing, reuse and replenishement workflow

npl · May 9, 2022

Been thinking of using XTOL instead of my usual HC-110 and occasionnal rodinal (for fomapan 100) because of several of its properties (full box speed, low grain, . ..). There is good threads about it here and the kodak publication is quite complete, but I still have a few questions. I shoot 35mm.

1. If your reuse xtol (plain reuse or with replenishement), do you pre-wash your film in order to get rid of the anti-halation dye ?

2. According to kodak, 15 rolls can be developped with one liter of XTOL stock, the first five without adjusting the dev time. Does your experience confirm that ? I only need 300ml to develop one roll. Assuming i'll store my stock XTOL in five 1L bottles and that I won't dilute it, how would it work ? can I assume to get a minimum of 5 rolls for each bottle without changing the dev times, maybe more ?

3. For thoses who like me went from HC-110 to XTOL, does your preference goes to the stock or the 1:1 dilution ? will try both with my usual films, but i'm interested in past experiences.

4. Not sure if i'll go down the replenishement route if I like the results from my first batch, because I'm worried I won't shoot enough to use up my stock before it goes bad. But if I do, does the following workflow make sense ? 1) divise the stock solution in 5 one liter bottles, one being the working solution, the other four the replenishement. 2) pour 300ml in the developing tank from the working solution 3) pour 70ml of fresh stock XTOL in the working solution bottle 4) when development is done, top up the bottle with the used solution and discard the rest. Is that OK, or is it better to have a larger bottle for the working solution, in order to have room to stir it ?

Thanks !

MattKing · May 9, 2022

My experience is as follows:
1) I use a working solution that is nearly 2 litres in volume - actually 2 US quarts, because I found a good container of that size;
2) I pre-wash, because I've pre-washed for many years, both when using chemicals one-shot and when replenishing, and I've been getting consistent results I like. I don't think it matters much if the working solution gets anti-halation dyes in it;
3) I always use the same amount of developer - 1 litre in a one litre tank -whether I'm developing 1, 2, 3 or 4 rolls;
4) the 70 ml of replenisher per roll in the working solution plus top up from the recently used developer works for me, but part of that may depend on the fact that I always use a litre of developer in the tank.
Assuming that we will still be able to get XTol in the future, it is inexpensive enough that you can afford to discard a couple of litres of replenisher from time to time. That being said, I have never had to, even when my usage has been low and it hasn't been used up after 6 months, or even longer. I do perform clip tests though on both the working strength and replenisher solutions after 6 months.

Craig · May 9, 2022

I don't think you need to worry too much about it going bad, I have used 3 year old stock solution and it was still good.

What I do though it get the plastic bags intended to wine homebrewing that come with a tap and store the stock solution in that. It keep any air out and is easy to dispense 70ml at a time and not introduce any air into the stock solution.

Andrew O'Neill · May 9, 2022

All films are pre washed except HP5.
I use replenished Xtol, as it just makes so much sense.

pentaxuser · May 9, 2022

Craig said:
I don't think you need to worry too much about it going bad, I have used 3 year old stock solution and it was still good.

What I do though it get the plastic bags intended to wine homebrewing that come with a tap and store the stock solution in that. It keep any air out and is easy to dispense 70ml at a time and not introduce any air into the stock solution.

I too use ex-wine bags i.e. bags that originally stored actual wine but were then washed out and filled with Xtol. I got nearly 2 years of satisfactory developing this way but in ex-wine bags I'd advise some caution about whether the average wine bag can keep all air out for 3 years. I suspect that there is some likelihood of some air ingress.

You may have been lucky to an extent in getting 3 years but on the other hand the wine bags that home-brew shops sell might be made to a higher standard than those used in commercial wine boxes

I confess I have never tried home-brew bags that are in that sense "pristine" as in never used

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2022

I have stock XTOL is StopLeak bags over 5 years that is still good. I have replenished XTOL lasting as long even though not developing film on a regular basis.

I prewash all black & white film except Tri-X when it will be developed in replenished TXOL processed in a Jobo processor.

Craig · May 9, 2022

I was doing some densitometry and thought I'd see what the old Xtol could do. I mixed up a fresh batch and compared to the old Xtol. I got the same densities from my step wedge; so I was pleased that it was still usable. My darkroom is reasonably cool too, it stays about 15°C year round.

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2022

Craig said:
I was doing some densitometry and thought I'd see what the old Xtol could do. I mixed up a fresh batch and compared to the old Xtol. I got the same densities from my step wedge; so I was pleased that it was still usable. My darkroom is reasonably cool too, it stays about 15°C year round.

And XTOL gets better with replenishment.

bdial · May 10, 2022

Replenished Xtol works fine without pre-washing too.

Sirius Glass · May 10, 2022

bdial said:
Replenished Xtol works fine without pre-washing too.

Absolutely true. For consistency I have chosen to follow John Tinsley's recommendations about prewashing in The Rotary Processor Manual 1992.

K-G · May 10, 2022

I have 10 l jar with replenished Xtol that was started 4 - 5 years ago ( I don't remember exactly ) and it is still fine. A large volume reduces slightly the risk for oxidation. Also use de-ionized water when mixing and fill your botle/jar to the top and let it bleed a little before sealing. Old replenished Xtol also needs filtering before use as there is a tendency for solid particles to sediment on the bottom. An ordinary paper coffee filter will do. If you follow this you will stay happy.

Karl-Gustaf

Duceman · May 12, 2022

I've been using replenished XTOL stored in a half-gallon dark glass beer growler; fill it to the brim and then cap it off. I only mix 1L of fresh XTOL at a time, and then store that in two old kombucha bottles which are also brown in color. Whenever I use some of the fresh developer, I throw in glass beads/marbles to get rid of the air space before capping off. I've left both alone for up to two months without any defects.

I've only pre-washed once or twice, but didn't see much of any difference between that and not pre-washing.

Wallendo · May 12, 2022

3. For thoses who like me went from HC-110 to XTOL, does your preference goes to the stock or the 1:1 dilution ? will try both with my usual films, but i'm interested in past experiences.

I switched from HC-110 to XTOL and develop at 1+1. The reason I do this is easier temp control. I measure the temp of developer and for each degree below 68F, I increase the temp of the water used by 1 degree.

npl · May 13, 2022

Lots of interesting answers, thank you ! looks like there is a strong consensus on using a replenishement workflow. Good point on the 1:1 temperature being easier to control too.

Radost · May 13, 2022

I just use stock and dump it. I tried replenishment with hand tanks. Stock gives me consistent results.

npl · May 13, 2022

Radost said:
I just use stock and dump it. I tried replenishment with hadn't tanks. Stock gives me consistent results.

Ideally that's what I would do. But the cost per roll is a bit much for me compared to HC-110 with this method.

cjbecker · May 13, 2022

npl said:
Ideally that's what I would do. But the cost per roll is a bit much for me compared to HC-110 with this method.

Xtol can be used for 5 rolls per L without change in development time. Saves dumping alot of developer if using stock. This is how im now using hc110, mix a 2.25 L batch (thats all that fits in my yankee tanks with floating lid) and use till I develop 8 rolls/equivalent or 2 weeks and dump.

As for temperature. I just use everything at room temperature, could be 65 or could be 77. I just adjust my time for temperature using the kodak darkroom
guide chart. Its a much easier workflow then trying to get everything too temp.

amam · May 13, 2022

npl said:
Ideally that's what I would do. But the cost per roll is a bit much for me compared to HC-110 with this method.

Nicholas, Avant de l'utiliser comme vous le souhaitez, si c'était moi, je testerais des rouleaux de votre film préféré dans une variété de conditions d'éclairage et de sujets et m'assurerais que cela fonctionne pour vous. Réalisez des tirages et faites des scans et des tirages jet d'encre ou mini lab, ne vous contentez pas de développer votre film car ce n'est que la moitié du processus photographique. Battez le développeur et assurez-vous que ce qui est bon pour tout le monde est bon pour vous. Je peux imaginer que si vous développez des centaines de rouleaux de film par mois, peut-être que Xtol économisera des euros si votre style d'impression et de prise de vue correspond à Xtol, mais économiser quelques centimes en vaut-il vraiment la peine ? Si vous décidez de ne pas utiliser Xtol, si c'était moi, je ne le mentionnerais même pas sur ce site, les haineux vont les haineux. Ils avaient l'habitude de dire que le HC-110 était le révélateur le plus économique, est-ce vraiment si cher, les négatifs sont bien meilleurs.
BonChance.

MattKing · May 13, 2022

cjbecker said:
As for temperature. I just use everything at room temperature, could be 65 or could be 77. I just adjust my time for temperature using the kodak darkroom
guide chart. Its a much easier workflow then trying to get everything too temp.

Same for me.

McDiesel · May 13, 2022

npl said:
Lots of interesting answers, thank you ! looks like there is a strong consensus on using a replenishement workflow.

Actually, if you search archives you'll notice that there isn't a strong consensus on replenishing. Folks who decide against it tend to do so quietly, while those who replenish do it... vocally.

Replenishing may save you a few cents per roll compared to 1+1, but it does not come for free. You have to monitor your process. Simply adding 70ml or any other static volume of replenisher forever will not work, your results will drift over time if you're using variety of emulsions, film speeds, and develop infrequently. Some films, notably Delta 400, will be more sensitive to this lack of consistency.

I replenish for fun, it gives me an excuse to tinker with control strips and a densitometer. It is probably a financially sound choice for folks who develop a lot of film (especially in sheets), but I must say this: at $13 per 10L of working solution, Xtol 1+1 is a care-free, more consistent and yet affordable path for majority of people who shoot 35mm and medium format at modest volumes.

Radost · May 13, 2022

cjbecker said:
Xtol can be used for 5 rolls per L without change in development time. Saves dumping alot of developer if using stock. This is how im now using hc110, mix a 2.25 L batch (thats all that fits in my yankee tanks with floating lid) and use till I develop 8 rolls/equivalent or 2 weeks and dump.

As for temperature. I just use everything at room temperature, could be 65 or could be 77. I just adjust my time for temperature using the kodak darkroom
guide chart. Its a much easier workflow then trying to get everything too temp.

77F is too short of a development for me with most films. I do 68-70...

npl · Jul 4, 2022

Hi, quick question

I'm in the middle of my tests. I splitted the 5L xtol stock solution in five 1L bottles, then developed five 35mm films in the first one (let's call it B1), and used a second bottle (B2) to do 1:1 with the same films. Now I want to try replenished solution. I've already put 70ml of fresh stock solution from B2 in B1, put back the developer from my fifth dev, and discarded the overflow.

I'll start with a fomapan 100 shot at box speed. Stock time was 5-6min and 1:1 time 8-8.5min. What would be a good starting point for a first dev in my working solution ? Closer to stock time, around 9min or so ? Thanks !

MattKing · Jul 4, 2022

As a starting point, the 1+1 one-shot times are likely close to your eventual seasoned replenished times.
For clarity though, do I understand correctly that the developer in B1 is at stock strength and has been reused without dilution for 5 rolls, and you are using unused developer at stock strength to do the replenishment?

npl · Jul 4, 2022

MattKing said:
As a starting point, the 1+1 one-shot times are likely close to your eventual seasoned replenished times.
For clarity though, do I understand correctly that the developer in B1 is at stock strength and has been reused without dilution for 5 rolls, and you are using unused developer at stock strength to do the replenishment?

Yes, this is correct thanks

Sirius Glass · Jul 4, 2022

MattKing said:
As a starting point, the 1+1 one-shot times are likely close to your eventual seasoned replenished times.
For clarity though, do I understand correctly that the developer in B1 is at stock strength and has been reused without dilution for 5 rolls, and you are using unused developer at stock strength to do the replenishment?

I too have found that 1:1 approximates the replenished XTOL development times for the Jobo processor and I use that as a guide when there are no data points for developing in replenished XTOL/.

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