Kodak Warning + Later Clarification

MCB18 said:

Kodak isn’t allowed to sell consumer film directly. They also aren’t allowed to sell motion picture film for stills use. There are a few exceptions, however. A few notable ones are CineStill Lomo and Fuji, and a few motion pictures spoolers that have specific contracts with Kodak that allow them to do this as a business. (Of course, that doesn’t stop folks from still buying motion picture film and respoolkng it regardless).

Basically:
EK sells KA Kodak branded film for distribution.
EK will sell film (as master rolls or pancakes) to other manufacturers under special conditions under contract.
EK sells Vision3 films to motion picture productions only, except for a few specific resellers.
EK will sell Aerocolor to anyone as long as you meet MOQ because that’s not a consumer film and they weren’t restricted from selling it (hence all the Aerocolor respools).

There are a few special exceptions, but that’s pretty much the whole picture.

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MY understanding is Eastman won;t sell their movie film to non-movie film producers just to stop the counterfeiting use for still photo film. You have to show you are a producer and I believe sign off on a statment that says you won/t convert it to still film use.

I also don't know why Cinestill and some others can do this against Alaris's distribution rights, though. Anyone know?

Alan Edward Klein said:

nderstanding is Eastman won;t sell their movie film to non-movie film producers just to stop the counterfeiting use for still photo film. You have to show you are a producer and I believe sign off on a statment that says you won/t convert it to still film use.

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Yes, this is correct, by contract Kodak can’t sell cinema film for stills use. This has been a part of the contract for over a decade, but Kodak turned a blind eye for a long time because it didn’t used to be a big issue.

Alan Edward Klein said:

I also don't know why Cinestill and some others can do this against Alaris's distribution rights, though. Anyone know?

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They have separate contracts with EK that allows them to buy film directly. I believe that KA no longer has exclusive distribution rights to stills film (if they ever did), but they do have the exclusive rights to the Kodak film brand*.

KA probably have a clause in their agreement that gives them the ability to tell EK who they can sell to and what they can sell them, which is why only a handful of companies are able to buy it from EK. Places like Adox or Astrum can absolutely chop up and finish a master roll of Ultramax, but they don’t have a contract so that won’t be happening.

*There are a few exceptions here but for the most part this is true.

Eastman Kodak was/is unwilling and unable to sell Vision stocks directly to Cinestill except under very specific conditions that made sure the film sold by Cinestill was very different than Kodak branded still film. Those conditions are/were:
1) Cinestill only bought the film in master roll volumes;
2) Initially, Cinestill was required to modify the film sold by them, by doing the remjet removal themselves. Subsequently, EK sold special versions of the film to Cinestill where the remjet had never been applied;
3) Cinestill has never been permitted to brand the film sold by them as Kodak film;
4) all film sold by Cinestill is a different emulsion, optimized for a different process, than any Kodak branded still film;
5) Cinestill attends to the edge printing and other steps involved with the finishing of the film, although there is at least a possibility that they may be using EK to do some of that. EK will do that for other entities and with other film, on a contract basis.
As I understand it, EK is still prohibited by contract from selling to anyone other than KA any film that is made to be sold as current Kodak branded still film.
EK has always been permitted to contract coat and finish other films for other parties. I expect entities like Lomo are able to get what is in essence slightly tweaked older, no longer made versions of films, for sale under their own name - never under the Kodak name.

MattKing said:

As I understand it, EK is still prohibited by contract from selling to anyone other than KA any film that is made to be sold as current Kodak branded still film.

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Except Canham’s custom sheet runs. Because that’s special I guess.

MCB18 said:

Lomo I don’t know, but from what I read CineStill bros are friends with a big wig at Kodak and so they got a very nice exclusivity deal for vision3 master rolls w/o remjet.

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Well... A big wing at EK shouldn't be able to break a contract with Alaris. In principle, EK doesn't need much persuasion to sell its products to a willing buyer.

MCB18 said:

As for other cine film sellers, it is my understanding that they buy rolls from real (or fake) production companies that buy a ton more film than they actually plan to use, and sell the extra film at a profitable price for them.

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That sounds like too obvious a loophole that it would have been mentioned in whichever agreement forbids EK from selling movie film as still film.

Alan Edward Klein said:

MY understanding is Eastman won;t sell their movie film to non-movie film producers just to stop the counterfeiting use for still photo film. You have to show you are a producer and I believe sign off on a statment that says you won/t convert it to still film use.

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Recently there were some articles written that were vilifying Kodak for "cracking down" on non-CineStill resellers of Vision 3 as still film. I remember lots of angry comments in various internet forums (not this one) about Kodak shooting itself in the foot and whatnot. But reading the details, if I recall correctly, all Kodak was doing was ask companies that claimed to be buying Vision 3 for a movie production to fill in a form with such onerous questions as "what's the name of the movie?" and "who is the producer?".

Don't quote me though. I didn't look into this in depth at the time, and my memory is fuzzy anyway.

EDIT:

https://petapixel.com/2025/02/04/why-kodak-is-cracking-down-on-respooled-motion-picture-film/

"Before getting into the situation at Reflx Lab, it is important to explain the situation quickly. The problem from Kodak’s perspective isn’t that its motion picture film is being respooled but rather how the respooler is acquiring said film. Kodak sells its motion picture film at two price points: one is for filmmakers who get a better deal because that industry is more susceptible to pricing changes and if the film price is too high, those filmmakers and studios may elect not to use film at all, which then would mean it is entirely possible that Kodak will no longer have enough volume to justify the price of production. In order to continue to allow filmmakers to keep using film, it is supporting the industry by keeping costs as low as possible.

...

Some companies are acquiring Kodak motion picture stock to respool but doing so without informing Kodak of that intended purpose, instead saying it is going to be used to produce movies. These companies are receiving the motion picture discount price and using that price difference to sell the respooled film at a lower price.
..."

dcy said:

Well... A big wing at EK shouldn't be able to break a contract with Alaris. In principle, EK doesn't need much persuasion to sell its products to a willing buyer.




That sounds like too obvious a loophole that it would have been mentioned in whichever agreement forbids EK from selling movie film as still film.

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I seems it is not just the forbidding to sell movie film as still film. It's that the movie film is still Kodak-branded film that when used as still film must be distributed by Alaris. I assume there's even Kodal imprinted on the emulsion of the movie film. Whereas Cinestill film made by Kodak has no Kodak labelling imprinted on the emulsion.

MCB18 said:

Except Canham’s custom sheet runs. Because that’s special I guess.

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No - that is Canham selling for Kodak Alaris.

From the Kodak Alaris website relating to Kodak film:

MattKing said:

No - that is Canham selling for Kodak Alaris.

From the Kodak Alaris website relating to Kodak film:
View attachment 406876

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Huh, never seen that site before

MCB18 said:

Huh, never seen that site before

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That is the Kodak Alaris site for film - it has been there for years.
The difference being that they renamed the web address - it used to include Alaris in the name.
Here is the link: https://www.kodakprofessional.com/