Kodak Vigilant Six 20 Folding camera

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

I just bought a Kodak Vigilant Six 20 camera and I was playing with different functions and everything was working fine until I pushed the little tab on the bottom and pushed it to one side. Here is the picture of the tab i am talking about.

www.flickr.com/photos/91509868@N05/25018386875/in/datetaken/

Now I can't cock or fire the shutter. I will appreciate any help.

Thanks

02Pilot · Feb 14, 2016

I'm not familiar with the Supermatic shutter, but what binds up most unserviced leaf shutters is the self-timer, which is what I suspect you've activated. Try tripping the shutter and applying very gentle pressure in the opposite direction to the way you pushed it when it locked - it might cause it to run out. If not, you'll have to get inside and service it.

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

02Pilot said:
I'm not familiar with the Supermatic shutter, but what binds up most unserviced leaf shutters is the self-timer, which is what I suspect you've activated. Try tripping the shutter and applying very gentle pressure in the opposite direction to the way you pushed it when it locked - it might cause it to run out. If not, you'll have to get inside and service it.

Hi Pillot,

Thanks for your response. Yes, it seams like self timer but now it is not coming back. I tried pushing it back to its original position but unable to do so. I don't want to put too much pressure as I am scared it will break it. I have no idea how to get inside and service it. Any clue?

Thanks

02Pilot · Feb 14, 2016

OK, first a self-correction: it's a Flash Kodamatic, not a Supermatic. It appears that is a manual cocking lever for the flash sync. Never encountered that before...

Anyway, with that in mind, I'd start here: http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=kodak35 - different camera, but the same shutter.

EDIT: Here's another series of photos with instructions, a bit clearer than the ones in the first link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wakingsky/sets/72157603592699066/with/2152516593/

You could also email Mike Butkus about these Kodak service manuals: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/repair_manuals/kodak_repair_books.htm

hsandler · Feb 14, 2016

Try fiddling with the flash sync setting X or M while you try to free it. I briefly had a Kodak retinette, not same shutter, but I recall the self timer and sync influenced each other. you were not supposed to set the self timer except in X sync.

shutterfinger · Feb 14, 2016

The Flash Kodamatic is a 1st cousin to the Flash Supermatic. The Flash delay timer setting should not move with the shutter in a released state. Normal operation is Cock the shutter, set the delay timer, trip the shutter.
You will most likely have to remove the face plate and speed ring to release/reset the delay timer.

macfred · Feb 14, 2016

hsandler said:
Try fiddling with the flash sync setting X or M while you try to free it. I briefly had a Kodak retinette, not same shutter, but I recall the self timer and sync influenced each other. you were not supposed to set the self timer except in X sync.

I used to have a Yashica Mat 124 about 15 years ago - I once set the selftimer with the flash sync on M and the camera had to be serviced ...

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

Thanks everyone. Yes the picture is from internet, it is not the original for my camera but it is almost same. On my camera it say Kodak No. 1 Kodamatic. Where can i find flash sync on the camera. Sorry, I am totally new to this.

Regards, Pendu

macfred · Feb 14, 2016

penduboy said:
Where can i find flash sync on the camera ...

On your picture there is a little window on the lens with a red M - that's the flash sync setting.

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

Ok thanks but as i said the picture is not the original picture of my camera. I don't have that option on my camera. But I managed to force back the self-timer tab (phew) and now I am able to cock the shutter but seams like shutter is only firing at maximum speed to 1/200 and bulb mode but in between I don't notice any difference between 1/200 and 1/10 and in-between.

Thank you everyone for great help, I am so happy that I posted this question on this helpful forum.

Pictures of my camera are attached here for reference.

Regards, Pendu

macfred · Feb 14, 2016

That shutter might not be X synchronized ...

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

macfred said:
That shutter might not be X synchronized ...

Hi Macfred. Not sure what this means

Also is it easy to fix and how?

thanks

shutterfinger · Feb 14, 2016

A Kodamatic does not have flash sync. A Flash Kodamatic has F and M flash bulb sync. A Kodamatic X has electronic flash sync only.
A Supermatic does not have flash sync. A Flash Supermatic has F and M flash bulb sync. A Supermatic X has electronic flash sync.
There is no flash sync for your shutter.
The Supermatic series of shutters do not have a self timer, they do have a Press to Focus that presses in toward the lens once the shutter is cocked. Cock the shutter-press and hold the Press to Focus ball-trip the shutter and it locks wide open-recock to release the Press to Focus.

Sounds like your shutter needs a CLA.

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

shutterfinger said:
A Kodamatic does not have flash sync. A Flash Kodamatic has F and M flash bulb sync. A Kodamatic X has electronic flash sync only.
A Supermatic does not have flash sync. A Flash Supermatic has F and M flash bulb sync. A Supermatic X has electronic flash sync.
There is no flash sync for your shutter.
The Supermatic series of shutters do not have a self timer, they do have a Press to Focus that presses in toward the lens once the shutter is cocked. Cock the shutter-press and hold the Press to Focus ball-trip the shutter and it locks wide open-recock to release the Press to Focus.

Sounds like your shutter needs a CLA.

Thanks Shutterfinger.

Yes, it seams like I don't have any flash sync option on my camera. Is it a easy fix for the shutter or do I need to get it repaired from someone.

Or is it worth the effort to get it fixed as I bought this camera for $20

Thanks

shutterfinger · Feb 14, 2016

A CLA will run $75 to $150 + shipping.
Try exercising it 50 to 100 cycles at various speeds, it might improve. It will be a moderately difficult shutter to learn on.
The links in post #4 show the disassembly. Its near identical to a Supermatic inside.
It will last 15 to 20 years if serviced before it needs servicing again.

Open the camera back. With the bellows near fully retracted unscrew the retainer ring from the rear of the shutter, you may need to unscrew the rear lens cell first if it extends over the ring, likely it won't.
Remove the shutter from the front standard noting its orientation and any shims between the shutter and front standard.
Remove the lens cells, front and rear.
Put it in a sealable container and cover with Naphtha and allow to sit for a few hours. You can also use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol or aerosol contact cleaner.
Naphtha and Alcohol may damage the finish.
Drain and let dry.
Try the various speeds.
It will last a few months to a year or two if it comes back to working with this method.

penduboy · Feb 14, 2016

shutterfinger said:
A CLA will run $75 to $150 + shipping.
Try exercising it 50 to 100 cycles at various speeds, it might improve. It will be a moderately difficult shutter to learn on.
The links in post #4 show the disassembly. Its near identical to a Supermatic inside.
It will last 15 to 20 years if serviced before it needs servicing again.

Open the camera back. With the bellows near fully retracted unscrew the retainer ring from the rear of the shutter, you may need to unscrew the rear lens cell first if it extends over the ring, likely it won't.
Remove the shutter from the front standard noting its orientation and any shims between the shutter and front standard.
Remove the lens cells, front and rear.
Put it in a sealable container and cover with Naphtha and allow to sit for a few hours. You can also use 90% Isopropyl Alcohol or aerosol contact cleaner.
Naphtha and Alcohol may damage the finish.
Drain and let dry.
Try the various speeds.
It will last a few months to a year or two if it comes back to working with this method.

Thanks for the detailed instructions, really appreciate your time. I will give it a try.

Regards

hsandler · Feb 14, 2016

If you are not confident taking it apart, and since it is only a $20 camera, you could also try squirting a bit of Naptha (Ronsonal lighter fluid is Naptha) inside the shutter to dissolve the grease, and exercising the shutter a lot. This is not a real clean, lube, adjust, and it may stick again after awhile even if it frees it up for awhile, but it has worked for me.
i would not invest in a pro CLA for a cheap camera.

shutterfinger · Feb 14, 2016

Lighter fluid has undesirable ingredients. Best to get the pure Naphtha from a paint store and use the lighter fluid for starting fires.
Do you still drive a model T held together with bubble gum and bailing wire?

Kodak Vigilant Six 20 Folding camera

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