Kodak TMAX100 with XTOL - Camera or development issue?

Hi guys,
I'm newly registered to the forum but the APUG has been a source of information ever since I started shooting MF film earlier this year.
After getting pretty good results with the MF, I purchased a 35mm rangefinder (Yashica Electro 35GX) and shot 2 rolls so far to test the camera: one TMAX400 which ended up being very nice and one TMAX100 which is causing me a headache...

The negatives ended up looking like this:

The space in between the frames isn't transparent as it would normally be, there are also lines through the images, sometimes faint sometimes more defined, almost like the excessive emulsion wasn't washed off properly.


So, now to the developing part, done manually in a Patterson tank:
Developer 500ml XTOL Stock: 5m 45s at 24 degrees Celsius (This is +15% since the 1liter of developer was used 7 times before - mixed in April this year and stored in an air free capped plastic bottle)
Stop bath 500ml: 30 seconds
Fixer Ilford Rapid Fixer 500ml: 5m at 24 degrees Celsius => This came out purple !
Wash with 23 - 25 degrees tap water: 2m
Final rinse with 2.5ml Kodak Photo Flo in 500ml Demineralised water: 1.5 to 2m => This came out purple !

I must admit that the developer has some sludge on the bottom of the bottle and although I shake the bottle before use every time, I don't check if all the sludge is gone, the whole solution gets a beige milky cast to it... This hasn't caused any issue before but if I messed up this might be important...

The oddities in the development process and the almost perfectly developed first roll shot with the camera makes me think I messed up during the development of this roll, but I cannot explain why the film is completely transparent near the edges of the strip while there appears to have been some exposure in between the frames.
I've checked the camera lens after this roll with a flashlight, the (leaf) shutter isn't letting any light pass through...

As you all can tell, I'm not an expert at this and I'm still learning.

Kind regards,
Davy

The development looks OK from what I can see. How many times has the fix been used? TMax/Delta type films need more time in the fix than conventional films. Your picture shows 2 frames that are separate, why not put them back in the fix for another 5 minutes, wash and see what you get? If the TMY400 was good and shot in the same camera then it is more likely to be the processing rather than the camera suddenly developing a fault. I do think you are being a bit mean with the re-use of the developer quite so much though. I use Xtol 1+1, one shot and throw away. It really isn't very expensive considering a pack makes 5 litres of stock. The wash of 2 minutes is too short: either use the Ilford water saving technique https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Reducing-Wash-Water.pdf or wash for longer, at least 10 minutes.

The fixer is mixed a month ago and it was only used twice before I used it with this roll. As a side note: the purple color of the fixer was also gone after letting it stand until I finished hanging up the roll to dry and started putting the chemicals back in their bottles. I'm assuming it's still safe to reuse it?

The 2 frames you talk about are the ones with the car on it? Since both the framing and the lighting is showing some issues I don't consider it a loss if I would mess up the negatives completely, so I guess I'll try to fix them some more this evening.

Regarding the use of the XTOL developer I thought the documentation specified that 15 rolls is the max for 1l of stock solution, so I was thinking of using it up to 10 rolls due to variation of film that I've developed in it (FP4+, HP5+, TMAX100, TMAX400 and a Tri-X400)... I bought this developer because I could store it for a long time and still re-use it quite often, but I still have 4 liters of untouched stock solution so I'm probably too mean / cheap with the developer

Kind regards,
Davy

Regardless of how many rolls you could theoretically get from your 1 litre of stock you do mention it has some sludge. If you use it 1+1 one-shot then there is no risk of the stock solution getting contaminated with dust, dirt etc. Yes the 2 frames with the car. You can do the extra fixing in the light and see if it makes any difference. You could load the 2 frame piece on the reel or even just put the piece directly in the fixer (but you may damage the emulsion swishing it about). The purple is a dye in the film and is normal -it fades in light.

-) there is at least fogging at the spaces between frames

-) there are density lines going continuously over frames and spacers

-) one frame (car) has as straight vertical division between image densities

-) all artefacts are limited to the 24mm frame height


So there definitely is a camera issue.

Could the film have gone through the camera twice?

There look to be images behind the primary set......almost like the film went through at a higher ASA thus underexposing the first pass?

Mike

Dear Davy,

There is a light leak of some sort in your camera. I believe it is the shutter curtains.

Was this the first or second roll? It might be possible with use the shutter will free itself up.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Neal said:

Dear Davy,

There is a light leak of some sort in your camera. I believe it is the shutter curtains.

Was this the first or second roll? It might be possible with use the shutter will free itself up.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Click to expand...

Leaf shutter.................no shutter curtains in this camera.

Get new light seals for the camera.

First, Welcome to Photrio, the "new and improved" version of APUG.
Looks like a camera or light leak issue, not a developing issue.
If you are developing these sorts of volumes of film, using replenished X-Tol makes way more sense.

Looks like a camera issue to my eyes...

MattKing said:

First, Welcome to Photrio, the "new and improved" version of APUG.
Looks like a camera or light leak issue, not a developing issue.
If you are developing these sorts of volumes of film, using replenished X-Tol makes way more sense.

Click to expand...

I agree with Matt on the replenished Xtol. I wasn't going to try it and then I did. Now I can't stop using it! Yes, it's that good and that easy.

I just replaced the light seals in my Olympus OM4-Ti. It had a light leak but it didn't look anything like the OP's. The light leak in my camera affected the film edges as well. I wonder why this is confined to the frames? I'm thinking this is not the standard light leak through the traps that seal the camera back. It also seems very consistent. The gaps between the frames seem equally exposed. Maybe because it takes about the same time to wind each frame on but why would the leak not completely ruin some of the frames? Surely the light leak would be acting for longer on some of the frames than others unless it is something to do with the shutter.

Picture of the light leak I had. The frames are blank due to accidentally firing the shutter in my bag. This happened to 2 films in a row. No problems since replacing seals.

It does not look like a development issue. It is a camera problem. Check for light leaks and dirt in the film transport.

First, thank you John for pointing out my error. However, I still think it's a light leak of some sort. The edges of the film are not fogged, only between the images. There are also places where there is a clear light leak, but only in the image area.

Neal Wydra

Neal said:

First, thank you John for pointing out my error. However, I still think it's a light leak of some sort. The edges of the film are not fogged, only between the images. There are also places where there is a clear light leak, but only in the image area.

Neal Wydra

Click to expand...

Neal, I agree with you about the light leak. Now the OP just has to find it. I've seen leaks around rewind knobs/cranks, shutter releases and other strange places.

This is a problem with your camera. Because only the image-area is fogged (and not the edges), light is leaking somewhere between lens and film. Was the shutter partly cocked when you rewound the film? If so, the blades might have opened slightly, fogging film as you were rewinding.

Mark Overton

Hi guys,

thanks for all the replies, I can conclude now that this isn't a development issue but rather a camera issue or even a specific camera state that has caused this...
I can share a more detailed image of the last two frames which (together with your comments) has led me to believe that the shutter blades didn't close properly after advancing the film after the last exposure and then of course, while rewinding the entire film, light caused fogging all over the 24mm film height.

Because of the last frame being so close to the end of the film, I think albada got it right in thinking the shutter was only partly cocked because I'm guessing it didn't allow me to turn the film advance lever as far as it needed to go...
So... this is actually a user error and not so much a development / camera issue? Is it a common error for cameras which cock the shutter together with advancing the film? Or is it Yashica specific?
I'll have to do some tests with a flash light to see for myself what actually what happens to learn from it to avoid this camera state.

On top of the camera issue, I've learned however that I'm exhausting the developer more than other Kodak XTOL users do so I might need to dig into the replenishing methods.

Kind regards,
Davy

Dirty Fool said:

Hi guys,
On top of the camera issue, I've learned however that I'm exhausting the developer more than other Kodak XTOL users do so I might need to dig into the replenishing methods.

Kind regards,
Davy

Click to expand...

Interesting comment. Do you mean that you are exhausting Xtol more than other users do who use the same "once and dump" method? If this is the case I wonder why you need to use more of it? I cannot think of any reason why your usage should be any different from any other users

pentaxuser

Dirty Fool said:

On top of the camera issue, I've learned however that I'm exhausting the developer more than other Kodak XTOL users do so I might need to dig into the replenishing methods.

Click to expand...

Follow the directions. They work.

I took "exhausting" the developer to mean "using up" the developer.

But it could be in reference to the workflow where one re-uses the same developer for several rolls, with an associated increase in development time for each subsequent roll.

Dirty Fool said:

Hi guys,
thanks for all the replies, I can conclude now that this isn't a development issue but rather a camera issue or even a specific camera state that has caused this...
I can share a more detailed image of the last two frames which (together with your comments) has led me to believe that the shutter blades didn't close properly after advancing the film after the last exposure and then of course, while rewinding the entire film, light caused fogging all over the 24mm film height.
Because of the last frame being so close to the end of the film, I think albada got it right in thinking the shutter was only partly cocked because I'm guessing it didn't allow me to turn the film advance lever as far as it needed to go...
So... this is actually a user error and not so much a development / camera issue? Is it a common error for cameras which cock the shutter together with advancing the film? Or is it Yashica specific?

Click to expand...

I have repaired many leaf-shuttered cameras and their shutters, and can tell you a couple of things about them: (1) Most cameras will allow the advance-lever to back-up a little while in mid-stroke, and (2) many leaf shutters will open slightly if you back-up the advance at just the wrong point in the advance-stroke. These two facts suggest that your camera is fine and that you hit end-of-roll at the unlucky position. To avoid this problem upon hitting end-of-roll, I press the rewind-button, and while holding it in, advance the lever the remainder of the stroke, thus guaranteeing that the shutter is closed. It's okay to move the film-advance lever while holding in the rewind-button because the sprocket-advance is released, so you won't pull the film off the supply-spool.

Mark Overton

AgX said:

-) there is at least fogging at the spaces between frames

-) there are density lines going continuously over frames and spacers



-) one frame (car) has as straight vertical division between image densities

-) all artefacts are limited to the 24mm frame height


So there definitely is a camera issue.

Click to expand...

+ 1 ....yes there is a definitive shutter problem with the yashica.
I remember this type well.I never had problems with this type but it was nearly new to my time.
Now you have to add min. 40 years.
The most exiting issue was the automatic exposure control with full aufonatic longtime function.
To night shots with 30" ...55".....1' 43" with very exact exposures. An amazing
fact. In other concerns I realy like this type AND yashica not so much therefore
I owned this camera only fot a short period of 1,5 years.
And I changed to Pentax MX !
The shutter is, so far as I know not easy
to repair.Yashica still not exist any more
parts are not so easy to get.It is a more
full electronic camera not so much a mechanical type.
The film transport mechanism seams to be also not 100% correct.
The rest failures are obviously in regard of less fixing times and foggy efects from developer.
But at least it is not so bad. We all have seen much more catastrophic results at the very first beginning.....
(from ourselves)

with regards

What do you mean by "back-up"?

AgX said:

What do you mean by "back-up"?

Click to expand...

I meant that if you stop advancing in the midst of a stroke, the advance-lever will move backwards a little on its own. If this happens when near the end of the stroke, the shutter in some cameras can open a little.

Mark Overton