Kodak TMAX packaging

[paul_c5x4]

A couple of quick questions for our friends that buy and use boxes of TMAX-400 in 100 sheets - Does Kodak divide the contents up in to smaller sealed packs ?
If so, are these packs hermetically sealed ?

 

[StoneNYC]

A couple of quick questions for our friends that buy and use boxes of TMAX-400 in 100 sheets - Does Kodak divide the contents up in to smaller sealed packs ?
If so, are these packs hermetically sealed ?

Yes, 2 packs of 25 in paper packs with metal and plastic inner lining.

If you look at my recent posting I am selling a "half box" one pack. If you're interested in seeing a single pack before buying a whole box.

 

[removed account4]

A couple of quick questions for our friends that buy and use boxes of TMAX-400 in 100 sheets - Does Kodak divide the contents up in to smaller sealed packs ?
If so, are these packs hermetically sealed ?

hi paul,
unless kodak alaris went back to the olden days of film packaging
or you are buying expired film ... it doesn't come in 100 sheet / box
you are stuck with 50 sheet boxes ...
they haven't had 100 sheet boxes in a few years ..

john

 

[karl]

Those inner envelopes are sealed until the corners of the sheets of film pierce them. This happens quite regularly. Don't ever buy an open box where the inner envelopes have been exposed to light. You're quite likely to get fogged film. I'm always amazed when sellers show the inner sealed envelopes as though it's a good thing. If the box has only been opened in total darkness, this is obviously not an issue.

 

[StoneNYC]

Those inner envelopes are sealed until the corners of the sheets of film pierce them. This happens quite regularly. Don't ever buy an open box where the inner envelopes have been exposed to light. You're quite likely to get fogged film. I'm always amazed when sellers show the inner sealed envelopes as though it's a good thing. If the box has only been opened in total darkness, this is obviously not an issue.

Yes be wary of those who are not real photographers and are stupid and pull out the packs. Mine were never exposed to light (hence why my ad only has a picture of the box) lol

But either way, the packs are sealed from moisture, unlike the ilford packs that are only folded over. Fuji also seals theirs.

This is why ilford recommends that you allow the film to thaw for 2 whole days out of the fridge instead of just a few hours.

But I've never had a problem with any ilford/Fuji/kodak films coming out of the freezer and then thawing out a few hours and loading the film, but I try really hard to give them time overnight in the fridge first if I didn't plan ahead and thaw them properly over a few days.

 

[karl]

Actually, I never put Ilford film in the fridge or freezer for the exact reason you mention. Ilford film in general, as much as I do love it, seems to have more issues with humidity related emulsion problems than Kodak film. Both kinds of packaging have their pros and cons.

 

[removed account4]

i never put any film in the fridge/freezer.
causes more trouble than its worth.
ive only been shooting sheets + rolls of film, all expired
all shelf stored iso 400 + 100, 800, color, b/w slide for 13+ years
doesn't exhibit any fog or shift at all ...
fridge/freezer storage for short term storage is huge waste of energy.
besides cosmic radiation will kill it no matter where it is stored

 

[StoneNYC]

Actually, I never put Ilford film in the fridge or freezer for the exact reason you mention. Ilford film in general, as much as I do love it, seems to have more issues with humidity related emulsion problems than Kodak film. Both kinds of packaging have their pros and cons.

Good to know, I kind of have a system though which seems to prevent most of any issue, all of my boxes go in individual Ziploc bags, they are special industrial food safe Ziploc bags not the regular kind you would buy at Stop & Shop, I then put them into snapware which are a new brand of sort of Tupperware but have locking latches they go around the top part of the lid and a very good rubber seal, there seem to be a few knockoff brands that are similar in design, but from what I've seen the snapware seems to be of the best quality. Only then do I put them into the freezer. When I take them out of the freezer I usually put them in the fridge and let them thaw for a day before taking them out of the fridge and letting them thaw again in normal temperatures. Only then do I take them out of the containers they're in.

This seems to alleviate any moisture issues, and I've switched to only ilford films for B&W so I've had a few boxes to through so far with no issue.

 

[canuhead]

If they're zip locked and sealed in containers, why do you put them in the fridge to thaw ? Why not just leave them on the counter ? seem alike a lot of bother just to warm up film. It's just film. ymmv

Like jnanian, just about all my film is neither frozen or fridged. it's kept in a cool basement fwiw

 

[StoneNYC]

If they're zip locked and sealed in containers, why do you put them in the fridge to thaw ? Why not just leave them on the counter ? seem alike a lot of bother jus to warm up film. It's just film. ymmv

Like jnanian, just about all my film is neither frozen or fridged. it's kept in a cool basement fwiw

It's better to slowly change an objects temperature, so many variables to list, but anything can happen in a rushed thaw. If water particles were present it could damage the film not having time for moisture to dissipate, condensation issues from moving the object too quickly to a fil different temp environment. Actual pressure issues from the high difference in temp could lead to the normally capable seal of the container to leak moisture that wouldn't happen with a slower thaw. All sorts of reasons. Plus just the change in temp could effect the emulsion by parts being colder it hotter than others could cause micro-fractures in the emulsion.

I'm probably being overly cautious, but it's good practice to allow proper thaw time. Just like why when you defrost good you should let it sit in the fridge first so that the entire piece can acclimate without cold pockets.

Better safe than sorry.

 

[canuhead]

The only reason afaic, to bag film for the freezer is to keep condensation out. If they're zip locked, no probs so toss them on the counter. Film can be shot at any temperature so bringing to room temp is not necessary. As well, film is not *that* delicate.

equating food to film is nonsense.

 

[removed account4]

It's better to slowly change an objects temperature, so many variables to list, but anything can happen in a rushed thaw. If water particles were present it could damage the film not having time for moisture to dissipate, condensation issues from moving the object too quickly to a fil different temp environment. Actual pressure issues from the high difference in temp could lead to the normally capable seal of the container to leak moisture that wouldn't happen with a slower thaw. All sorts of reasons. Plus just the change in temp could effect the emulsion by parts being colder it hotter than others could cause micro-fractures in the emulsion.

I'm probably being overly cautious, but it's good practice to allow proper thaw time. Just like why when you defrost good you should let it sit in the fridge first so that the entire piece can acclimate without cold pockets.

Better safe than sorry.

maybe for some things it is extremely important to be this scientific in your approach
but for film it seems over the top, totally unnecessary and overly cautious ...
but, its your film, do with it what you want.


SNIP

As well, film is not *that* delicate.

equating food to film is nonsense.

common sense and not over thought ...

 

[Xmas]

Forma says

fridge storage 2 hours acclimatized
freezer storage 6 hours

think they don't want condensation on emulsion

desirable you read the data sheets for your film type.

 

[StoneNYC]

The only reason afaic, to bag film for the freezer is to keep condensation out. If they're zip locked, no probs so toss them on the counter. Film can be shot at any temperature so bringing to room temp is not necessary. As well, film is not *that* delicate.

equating food to film is nonsense.

Not to argue too much but IF any moisture has penetrated, separating the sheets will cause emulsion separation and totally ruin your images.

Same with roll film, I once didn't wait long which and ended up with half the emulsion stuck to the paper... Because the center of the roll hadn't warmed up yet ... This was a kodak roll by the way.

 

[canuhead]

Well you should have left it in the foil wrapper I've never, NEVER had any issues with film warming up in 120 foil or 35 plastic containers. If you put your film in zip locks that are closed properly, then moisture will not be an issue unless there was moister win the ziplock to begin with.

As for sheet film, my guess would be that if there's enough moisture to cause separation, then the film is most likely pooched anyways from ice crystals forming on the emulsion. but that'd be a wild guess unsupported by any factual evidence.

 

[StoneNYC]

Well you should have left it in the foil wrapper I've never, NEVER had any issues with film warming up in 120 foil or 35 plastic containers. If you put your film in zip locks that are closed properly, then moisture will not be an issue unless there was moister win the ziplock to begin with.

As for sheet film, my guess would be that if there's enough moisture to cause separation, then the film is most likely pooched anyways from ice crystals forming on the emulsion. but that'd be a wild guess unsupported by any factual evidence.

I do, this was a special case of buying from someone who pre-un-sheathed the rolls, but all the other rolls came out fine (50 total rolls of Kodak EPT) just that one time because I didn't thaw it.
Just saying it doesn't hurt to be cautious, and anything can happen, kodak pre-rips their film so it's easy to open, one could be caught on a snag and let moisture in, the glue could miss a spot and let moisture in...

One of my favorite movie quotes is "chance favors the prepared".

 

[DREW WILEY]

TMax sheet film ain't that cheap, so if you are rich enough to gamble ruining a package by opening it an hour or two too soon after being frozen, be my guest. Plenty of people have learned that lesson the hard way, as well as how not to put open packages back in the freezer,
If you plan to do a lot of this kind of thing, you can get a nice little vacuum packing device intended for frozen foods for about a hundred bucks.

 

[StoneNYC]

TMax sheet film ain't that cheap, so if you are rich enough to gamble ruining a package by opening it an hour or two too soon after being frozen, be my guest. Plenty of people have learned that lesson the hard way, as well as how not to put open packages back in the freezer,
If you plan to do a lot of this kind of thing, you can get a nice little vacuum packing device intended for frozen foods for about a hundred bucks.

+1

 

[paul_c5x4]

Yes, 2 packs of 25 in paper packs with metal and plastic inner lining.

Thanks for confirming that.

... it doesn't come in 100 sheet / box

Box says "2000" - Compared to some of the plates/film/paper I've got kicking around, that is quite fresh.

Those inner envelopes are sealed until the corners of the sheets of film pierce them.

Thanks for the warning - I had been going to open up the box and just drop the spare packs in the freezer. I'll now open in the darkroom and box up the spare packs before freezing (and yes, I do have a FoodSaver).

 

[removed account4]

Thanks for confirming that.

Box says "2000" - Compared to some of the plates/film/paper I've got kicking around, that is quite fresh.

excellent
they stopped with the 100's mid 2000s from what i was told at b/h and the good folks
who used to answer the phone at kodak. 2000 will be old tmy, not the new improved tmy-2
i loved that emulsion, have fun!

john

 

[karl]

That film was probably manufactured in 1997. It's likely 17 years old. Not much point in freezing it if you ask me. Unless you know for certain the previous storage conditions you might as well stick it in the bottom of your closet and shoot it when you get to it. I shoot a lot of expired film. You never really know what you're going to get with film that old. With 400 speed film you're likely to see some fog. If it was Plus-X or TMX of a similar vintage and well stored I think it would be fine.

 

[BetterSense]

I've yanked tmax directly from the freezer and put it in holders. No problems. I've also put it back in the freezer after opening the packets and dumping the sheets in the box loose.

 

[Roger Cole]

The only reason afaic, to bag film for the freezer is to keep condensation out. If they're zip locked, no probs so toss them on the counter. Film can be shot at any temperature so bringing to room temp is not necessary. As well, film is not *that* delicate.

equating food to film is nonsense.

+1. I've frozen and refrigerated film and paper with abandon over the years, never took very heroic measures, just let it warm long enough that the outer container feels room temperature and I've never had a problem.


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