Kodak Selenium toner

I have some very old Kodak Selenium Toner. I've had several people tell me that Selenium Toner doesn't go bad but I'm not getting any coloring with this toner. I've tried dilutions as strong as 1:3 at 90 Degrees but no matter how long I leave it in or what paper I use I get no color change. Once out of frustration I flopped a wet print out of the toner on the counter and walked away. The next morning it had a nice golden brown tone to it. The towels I wipe my hands on have toner stains the next day.

So why is it that I don't get any color change until it dries? I thought selenium was supposed to be a wysiwyg?

Don't know.
If it doesn't smell the usual smell, then it's not selenium or it's gone bad.

Some papers don't tone in selenium. I had this frustraing experience with Ilford mgfb IV... No matter how long, irlt didn't change.

I use KRST 1:20 for 8 min at around 74 degrees, with Ilford Galerie developed in Dektol.

The color changes only very slightly from Olive towards Neutral.

There is some discussion that recommends Selenium toning at a warm temperature 1:3 but only for 45 seconds. Then you start to lose density.

I always wear gloves, having heard this is hazardous, recommend you take protective measures for yourself - I even rinse my gloves before wiping on a towel to keep the towels from getting contaminated.

Regards,

Bill

p.s. I work for Kodak but my opinion and position is my own and not necessarily that of EKC.
Bill

I think the color change you are seeing is a result of staining, not toning.

As far as I know, Selenium toner contains large amount of the same ingredients as ordinary fixers. As such, extensive washing is necessary after toning. If you just left it after soaking the paper in selenium solution, then it will stain the paper pretty badly.

Isn't it in the same color that spilled fixer will leave?

What kind of paper are you using? Some paper won't tone very well.... Even when it does, the change is rather gradual and subtle. Unless you have un-toned paper next to it to compare, you won't see very much change.

I haven't had my toner long enough for it to go bad.... but I suppose anything can go bad if yours is very old or stored in very poor condition.

NB23 said:

Some papers don't tone in selenium. I had this frustraing experience with Ilford mgfb IV... No matter how long, irlt didn't change.

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Ilford Multigrade (MGIV) resists color change from selenium. It gets a bit darker but it does not change color even if you leave it in the soup overnight.

If you are using Ilford MGIV, that's the reason. If you just want to enhance the image density and contrast, selenium will fit the bill. If you want color change, you'll have to switch to another type of paper.

I use selenium on Ilford MGIV but I only want to enhance density and to preserve the photograph. I don't want color change. If I want that, I use a different paper.

JRieke said:

I have some very old Kodak Selenium Toner. I've had several people tell me that Selenium Toner doesn't go bad but I'm not getting any coloring with this toner. I've tried dilutions as strong as 1:3 at 90 Degrees but no matter how long I leave it in or what paper I use I get no color change. Once out of frustration I flopped a wet print out of the toner on the counter and walked away. The next morning it had a nice golden brown tone to it. The towels I wipe my hands on have toner stains the next day.

So why is it that I don't get any color change until it dries? I thought selenium was supposed to be a wysiwyg?

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i gave up on selenium toning a while back and went to direct sulphide tonin instead. it's fully archival and much more wysiwyg.

I have working solutions of KRST that are more than five years old, have been replenished and filtered many times and are still active. I also have 10-year-old bottles of concentrate that work fine. I seriously doubt that your concentrate has gone bad. However it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

That said, I would much more believe that the papers you are using simply does not respond well to selenium toning, as mentioned above. I used some Cachet paper some years ago that simply would not change. After leaving it in the toner overnight, it just turned a bit bluer...

Which papers are you using?

Try some Adox. It tones beautifully and quickly in rather dilute selenium toner.

Best,

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

It also depends on the developer. MGIV in Dektol will show a much bigger shift from olive green to plum in KRST 1:9 than MGIV in Ansco 130, where there is no olive green cast to start with. In any case, it may be subtle, but there is a marked shift.

Buy a new bottle of selenium toner and try again.

Rafal Lukawiecki said:

It also depends on the developer. MGIV in Dektol will show a much bigger shift from olive green to plum in KRST 1:9 than MGIV in Ansco 130, where there is no olive green cast to start with. In any case, it may be subtle, but there is a marked shift.

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Absolutely. I don't understand when people say MGIV doesn't tone well in selenium. I think it tones great, but it needs stronger dilutions. I prefer 1:9 for 6-8 minutes. Lovely charcoally tones.

Doremus Scudder said:

I have working solutions of KRST that are more than five years old, have been replenished and filtered many times and are still active. I also have 10-year-old bottles of concentrate that work fine. I seriously doubt that your concentrate has gone bad. However it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

That said, I would much more believe that the papers you are using simply does not respond well to selenium toning, as mentioned above. I used some Cachet paper some years ago that simply would not change. After leaving it in the toner overnight, it just turned a bit bluer...

Which papers are you using?

Try some Adox. It tones beautifully and quickly in rather dilute selenium toner.

Best,

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

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Which Adox paper would that be?

The MCC 110, which I really like, does indeed tone in KRST, but I don't care for the color. In 1+19 at about 75 degrees it starts to take on a plum/magenta tone at about five minutes. I don't like the color so I stop at about 4 minutes for archival purposes and a slight but noticeable improvement in d-max.

Hi Roger,

I should have been more specific. I use graded papers mostly and I was speaking of Adox Nuance, which I have heard is really made by Emaks (not sure about that though).

I generally don't like the way VC papers tone. That's one of the reasons I try to stick with graded when possible. However, now that Seagull is gone and Freestyle is no longer marketing Slavich the selection is getting rather small.

Maybe you have a suggestion for a VC paper that tones a nice hint of eggplant in selenium?

Best,

Doremus

www.DoremusScudder.com

Hi Doremnus,

Not right off. It depends on how "eggplant" you want it. MCC 110 does start to get purple/magenta. I don't care for it so I stop short of that but you might try it. It's a very nice, very rich paper, just not capable (according to what I've read here and I haven't found a way either) of a really cool tone. It's a very nice neutral to slightly warm tone though.