Kodak rapid selenium toner and dilution

As a regular practice I tone using a 1:10 ratio for about 2 to 3 min until I see the low tones increase contrast. With papers no longer available like Forte PWT I toned to get eggplant lows and mushroom highs.

I’m currently printing on Ilford WT and Foma Fomatone 532. The question is if you dilute selenium to 1:30 or higher vs a stronger solution does it result in more of a brown tone. How does the ratio change the image color.

From experience Foma in 1:10 changes color rapidly….like 60-90s.

I've standardized on 1:20 for decades, but don't use selenium toner much anymore, generally preferring other toning methods. Some current papers Sel tone really fast - even 15 sec. But I like nuanced effects, not over-the-top conspicuous browns.

Richard Jepsen said:

As a regular practice I tone using a 1:10 ratio for about 2 to 3 min until I see the low tones increase contrast. With papers no longer available like Forte PWT I toned to get eggplant lows and mushroom highs.

I’m currently printing on Ilford WT and Foma Fomatone 532. The question is if you dilute selenium to 1:30 or higher vs a stronger solution does it result in more of a brown tone. How does the ratio change the image color.

From experience Foma in 1:10 changes color rapidly….like 60-90s.

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Going to 1:30 won’t change colors in my experience, but is specifically meant for stability of tone through decades. But then deeper blacks will not show up either.

otto.f said:

Going to 1:30 won’t change colors in my experience, but is specifically meant for stability of tone through decades. But then deeper blacks will not show up either.

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At this level, selenium toning doesn't do anything; no deeper black, no color change and no protection. Selenium toning only protects the print if it is fully toned which does give a (strong) change in color towards brown or purple( eggplant) dependent on the paper. I would suggest that you use selenium toning for aesthetics; deeper blacks and/or change in color. If you don't get either of that, then the toning is so light that it doesn't add any protection, no need to bother with it. You may want to read this thread and the documents referenced in the posts.

I tone Ilford Classic FB in KRST 1:20 5 min to get deeper blacks. It also cools the tone of the paper a bit. I wouldn't worry about stability. If you fix and wash your prints properly, they'll last a long time.

In my experience, toning weaker for longer produces the same tones as using a stronger working solution for a shorter amount of time. The real variables are the paper and the print developer.

I find the idea of selenium toning for x amount of time at x dilution to be fundamentally flawed. Unless you plan on mixing a rather large amount of toner and discarding it at the first sign of decreased activity (thereby wasting a lot of toner!), you just won't get consistent results. Every print through the toner weakens the solution somewhat. After some number of prints, you won't get the same amount of toning as you did when you started. Also, different images with different distributions of tones and made with different contrast filtration will require more or less toning to give a pleasing visual effect. The effect of different filtration on the toning characteristics of VC papers is greater than most think.

Also, the idea of toning for "protection" while not changing the image tone is fundamentally flawed. No visible toning or change in density = no protection. The protection offered by selenium toning is directly proportional to the amount the image is toned. Most of us don't want to selenium tone our images fully and therefore shouldn't be counting on the small amount of toning we use to provide protection for the print. Keeping an eye on fixer capacities and using best-practice fixing and washing regimes is a whole lot better if one wants optimum permanence.

I recommend keeping an untoned print next to the toning tray for comparison, using a good viewing light that's not too heavy on the red end of the spectrum and toning prints till they visually exhibit the amount of toning desired. This will end up being different times for different prints at different stages of toner exhaustion.

And, then you can replenish, filter and reuse your toner indefinitely... I've written enough about that that I won't go into any more detail here.

Best,

Doremus

@Doremus Scudder I'm using your selenium toner practices. It works well. My current replenished toner batch is probably about 5 years old now. I started with the 1:20 mix but now it is not that accurate.

spijker said:

@Doremus Scudder I'm using your selenium toner practices. It works well. My current replenished toner batch is probably about 5 years old now. I started with the 1:20 mix but now it is not that accurate.

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Glad it's working out.

I don't bother much about dilution anymore. I just have two jugs of toner, one marked "weak" and one marked "strong." If times are too long I'll add more toner concentrate; if too short I'll add water.

Best,

Doremus

Now that I no longer have a darkroom, I clearly understand selenium!!!

Turns out, by reading the data sheet and total happenstance, I got the use of it right - density and protection.

Luckily, I find the Ilford Art 300 to have a very pleasing brown(ed) tone when fully toned in selenium (I do eight minutes in a 1:10 solution). Stumbled on that by pure luck, and sticking with it until I install better ventilation and start working with other toners.

spijker said:

At this level, selenium toning doesn't do anything; no deeper black, no color change and no protection. Selenium toning only protects the print if it is fully toned which does give a (strong) change in color towards brown or purple( eggplant) dependent on the paper. I would suggest that you use selenium toning for aesthetics; deeper blacks and/or change in color. If you don't get either of that, then the toning is so light that it doesn't add any protection, no need to bother with it. You may want to read this thread and the documents referenced in the posts.

I tone Ilford Classic FB in KRST 1:20 5 min to get deeper blacks. It also cools the tone of the paper a bit. I wouldn't worry about stability. If you fix and wash your prints properly, they'll last a long time.

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This is not correct. I dilute KRST 1:40 and on Ilford FB there is a definite increase in shadow density. Just last week I had a print that I was unsure of which filtration to use so I printed 2 identical prints, toned one and left the other untoned, definite change in shadow densities on the toned print. If you have David Vestal's book "The Art of B&W Enlarging there are curve densities on page 163 showing the difference.

spijker said:

this level, selenium toning doesn't do anything;

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Doremus Scudder said:

No visible toning or change in density = no protection.

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Thanks for correcting this!