Kodak Rapid Fixer - Mixing Question

CGross · Feb 17, 2007

I was really trying to not have to ask such a basic question, but after several hours of searching APUG and the rest of the Internet I have not found exactly what I am searching for.

I just received all of my B&W chemicals from Freestyle and I am getting ready to begin mixing all the stock solutions up tonight. The fixer I have picked for now is Kodak Rapid Fixer with Hardener.

The kit I have was described as "To Make 1 US Gallon" for Film and "2 US Gallons" for paper. But the instructions have mixing combinations for 1, 3.5, and 5 Gallons for Film.

Similarily for paper they have 1 and 5 gallon instructions. Which one of these should I use and do also need to mix in the hardner?

I presume I need to follow the 1 Gallon instructions? If I do, is that the stock solution or working solution? If stock is the ratio 1:3 for the working solution?

Why would they have instructions of volumes other than 1 Gallon?

If I do not want to add the hardner initially can you add it later and at what ratios?

I'll throw in one more question. One of the developers I am planning to use some is Accufine. Instructions are to mix to make 1 Gallon. When developing film, do I use it 1:1 or another dilution?

As always, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Cody

jstraw · Feb 17, 2007

The instructions are for working solutions and which instructions you choose depends on whether you are mixing film or paper fixer. You don't say which.

They have instructions for various quantities because they sell kits to make larger quantities and they print one instruction sheet.

You will get various opinions on the use of the hardener.

Photo Engineer · Feb 17, 2007

I mix for the film dilution and then add 1 part of water if I am going to use it for paper.

PE

jstraw · Feb 17, 2007

PE, does that result in adilution with less hardener than the instructions call for? Just wondering...that wouldn't be a bad thing.

CGross · Feb 17, 2007

jstraw said:
The instructions are for working solutions and which instructions you choose depends on whether you are mixing film or paper fixer. You don't say which.QUOTE]

I will be mixing for both film and paper. One set of instructions for the different quantities clears things up greatly!!!

Photo Engineer said:

I mix for the film dilution and then add 1 part of water if I am going to use it for paper.
PE

Click to expand...

So, basically it is 1 part film dilution and 1 part water? That's a heck of alot easier then having storage bottles mixed separately for both.

PHOTOTONE · Feb 17, 2007

Yes, in general the mix for paper is 1/2 the strength used for film. Even to the hardener. Some people may choose to use even less hardener in the fix when doing paper, though.

The basic dilution is 16 oz of concentrate to the gallon for paper fix, and 32 oz. of concentrate to the gallon for film fix.

Photo Engineer · Feb 17, 2007

I mix KRLF exactly as specified on the container for film and keep it that way on my shelf. If I do film, I use as-is. If I am doing paper, I take 1 part of fixer and mix with one part of water.

I always use the hardener.

PE

TStodPhoto · Sep 3, 2007

So I did some searching came across this and I still have a question or 2...
1 If you wanted to use the Hardener of the Rapid Fix how much in ounces would you add? To either mix? and would it mess with the ratios? I have listed below? I can not find my instructions on mixing them, but I finally got what you all were saying... here is my jist of the whole KRF: 1:7 is in easy terms, to make a gal of it, 16oz. of concentrate and 112oz. of H2O for paper fix, film fix is 32oz. of concentrate and 96oz. h2O to mix 1:3 Am I right or do I need to get slapped by the edumucation monkey again? LMAO Thanks

Michael Kadillak · Sep 3, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
I mix KRLF exactly as specified on the container for film and keep it that way on my shelf. If I do film, I use as-is. If I am doing paper, I take 1 part of fixer and mix with one part of water.

I always use the hardener.

PE

I put 32 ounces of the fixer and fill with water to one gallon and toss the hardener. Nobody ever convinced me that the hardener was necesssary.

Cheers!

Lee Shively · Sep 3, 2007

I use it at film strength for both paper and film. For film, I use hardener. For paper, I use two baths without hardener.

CCLA · Aug 27, 2017

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but I cannot make head or tails of the numbers above. I just want to mix the solution including the hardener. So according to the instructions, Part A and Part B are to be mixed at a ratio of 1:9, and Part A and water should be mixed at a ratio of 1:3. What I am planning to do for Film is mix Part A and water to make one Gallon (so 32oz of Part A and 96oz of water) and then add the hardener (3.6oz). In simpler terms these are the parts to mix the fixer for film and paper:

Component	Film Parts	Paper Parts
Part A	9	9
Part B	1	1
Water	27	54

Does this sound right?

claudio

MattKing · Aug 27, 2017

CCLA said:
Does this sound right?

Sorry, no.
To make one US gallon of film fixer with hardener at Kodak's recommended 1 + 4 dilution, you need to:
1) start with about half a gallon of water,
2) add to that the one US quart (32 US fluid ounces) bottle of Part A,
3) carefully add to that the little 3.5 US fluid ounce bottle of highly acidic Part B hardener, and then
4) add to that enough water to bring the total volume to one US gallon.
To make two US gallons of paper fixer with hardener at Kodak's recommended 1 + 9 dilution, you just need to mix up the one US gallon of film fixer, and then dilute it 1 + 1.
If your goal is to make smaller quantities, you need to work with fractions. The thread that follows may help you with that: https://www.photrio.com/forum/index...mall-batch-mixing-charts-do-they-exist.66302/

CCLA · Aug 28, 2017

I see, so Part B displaces water. I also made a mistake in the calculation of the paper parts in my previous post (I doubled the water rather than diluting the original formula). So the parts would be:

Component	Film Parts	Paper Parts
Part A	64	64
Part B	7	7
Water	185	441

claudio

MattKing · Aug 28, 2017

Claudio:
The numbers in your previous post (#13) are correct.
May I ask why you are using the hardener?

CCLA · Aug 28, 2017

Monkey see, monkey do I guess. I have been reading up on posts that debate whether to use hardener or not. Still have not made up my mind to use it or not (the hardener).

Most people seem to think it is unnecessary, but why would Kodak still provide it if it is not needed (other than charging for it)? On the other hand, people that support it say that it is needed for permanency of the negative/print, although it needs longer washing.
I understand that it makes toning harder (near impossible?), but I am not planning to do any toning yet.

What are your thoughts Matt?

claudio

MattKing · Aug 28, 2017

With one special exception, I don't use the hardener for the modern general purpose films and RC papers that I use. I wouldn't use it with modern general purpose FB papers either.
Most, modern, general purpose films and papers are sufficiently pre-hardened. If you further harden tthem, you just end up needing to extend the washing time.
If you use some of the second tier films that aren't as well hardened, it is a good idea to use it.
The same applies to special purpose films like plate film and X-ray film, which really benefit from it.
If you buy Rapid Fixer in the larger, commercial quantities, you can choose to buy the hardener separately, or not at all.
As I understand it, the hardener has no meaningful effect on the permanency of the negative or print. What it does is prevent damage that occurs during the processing, washing or drying stages.
I keep the separate bottles of hardener, because some of the toning I do of my RC prints softens the emulsions. When I tone those prints, I use the hardener before the final wash.
If you don't use the hardener when you mix up your fixer, just replace it with water. That results in nice, simple 1 + 3 and 1 + 7 dilution ratios.

Kodak Rapid Fixer - Mixing Question

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