Kodak raising chemistry prices

Jeff Searust · Oct 1, 2008

Just had a memo come past that Kodak is raising prices on paper and chemistry. Prices are being raised by 50% in some places. For example Dektol 1 gal bags are going from $6.50 to $9.70 retail.

Its time to start mixing more of my own chemistry now that the 3rd ed of the darkroom cookbook is out...lol

Mark_S · Oct 1, 2008

I would be happy to pay higher prices to Kodak if I felt that they had a commitment to the B&W traditional photography market, but I have no such faith. They have already discontinued all paper, and many of their films. I used to be 100% kodak, but have now managed to wean myself off of everything except for HC-110.

2F/2F · Oct 1, 2008

Mark_S said:
I would be happy to pay higher prices to Kodak if I felt that they had a commitment to the B&W traditional photography market, but I have no such faith. They have already discontinued all paper, and many of their films. I used to be 100% kodak, but have now managed to wean myself off of everything except for HC-110.

You will find that Ilford HC is identical for all intents and purposes. I used to be an HC-110 addict myself, but decided to switch to all Ilford for the same reason (as well as the fact that ounces are idiotic when put next to milliliters). I had five films totally down with HC-110 B and H, and when I repeated my tests with Ilford HC on two of the films, I found no difference in film speed, and only about a 15 sec. difference in development times, which is really too close to measure anyhow.

Ilford's bottles do stink big time compared to Kodak's. Their shape is nice, but I can't ever get the seal off the top cleanly, so never get to reuse the bottles.

Nigel · Oct 1, 2008

I don't see why it should be a surprise that Kodak would raise prices. Unless you are completely self-sufficient, you have probably noticed many if not all things have gone up in price. The problem is the price of oil. Not only is energy used in producing goods and transporting them to market, oil is also the primary input for the manufacture of many polymers (plastics). I have noted that, amoungst other things, Fuji films have become more expensive. Of course I don't recall seeing any outcry over that...

Personally, I would worry about the long term security of Kodak if they didn't raise prices. With a refusal to raise prices to pass along increased costs, would be decreased profits and potentially failure of the company. That's probably not good for any of us, regardless of preferred suppliers.

Jeff Searust · Oct 1, 2008

Nigel said:
I don't see why it should be a surprise that Kodak would raise prices. Unless you are completely self-sufficient, you have probably noticed many if not all things have gone up in price. The problem is the price of oil. Not only is energy used in producing goods and transporting them to market, oil is also the primary input for the manufacture of many polymers (plastics). I have noted that, amoungst other things, Fuji films have become more expensive. Of course I don't recall seeing any outcry over that...

Personally, I would worry about the long term security of Kodak if they didn't raise prices. With a refusal to raise prices to pass along increased costs, would be decreased profits and potentially failure of the company. That's probably not good for any of us, regardless of preferred suppliers.

Nah, they regularly raise prices, may even %10 this year to date, but the hugeness of this increase is really staggering. I have 15 5 gallon boxes of Fix part A next to my desk here that have gone from $41 to $61 net. Its just that while prices on everything are going up and even Kodak sends out price changes once a month or so, to raise prices this much in one fell swoop is a big deal.

Paul Howell · Oct 1, 2008

Nigel said:
I don't see why it should be a surprise that Kodak would raise prices.

I am under the impression that Kodak sold its chemistry division, the new owners pay Kodak for the use of the Kodak brand. I dont know control Kodak has over the pricing.

David Brown · Oct 1, 2008

Jeff Searust said:
For example Dektol 1 gal bags are going from $6.50 to $9.70 retail.

Well, let's see. A gallon is enough stock for me to make up about 8-10 printing sessions ($1 session). In a single session (such as this past Saturday) I might use 20+ sheets of 8x10 paper at 80 cents each ($16/session). I guess developer cost was never my main concern. But then there are people who don't use stop bath to save money ...

I'm just happy that Kodak (or their agent) is still making it.

As my signature line used to say:

Photography is not for the faint of wallet.

epatsellis · Oct 1, 2008

Jeff, are the flexicolor chemistry prices going up as much? I need to stock up and am considering alternatives to Kodak as it is now.

erie

eddym · Oct 1, 2008

2F/2F said:
You will find that Ilford HC is identical for all intents and purposes.

I've been using Ilfotec HC myself, but unfortunately, it is already considerably more expensive than HC110. Maybe Kodak is trying to match Ilford prices.

Vaughn · Oct 1, 2008

Not fun news. The university gives me $28.61 per student per semester (about 125 students) for all consumables (film, paper and chemicals). We use about 130 gallons of Dektol (and about the same of D-76) per semester. The students supply their own film and paper, except for some special projects (4x5 film, mural paper, for example). A 50% increase in chemical cost will mean the students will get less of the material for the special projects...and we may have to forego the mural printing projects...which they really enjoy...or will have to buy their own rolls of mural paper.

The other choice is to go from the 80 hours of open darkroom time/week (7 days a week until mid-night), down to half days on weekends or something of that sort.

Vaughn

CBG · Oct 1, 2008

Mark_S said:
I would be happy to pay higher prices to Kodak if I felt that they had a commitment to the B&W traditional photography market, ...

I'm not sure I know what to think any more. I'm very impressed they seem still to be advancing the state of the art with the tabular grain films and two electron sensitization. I'm very sorry to see the retreat from paper.

C

gr82bart · Oct 1, 2008

I'd like to know the source of the original poster's information.

Regards, Art.

Paul Howell · Oct 2, 2008

Vaughn said:
Not fun news. The university gives me $28.61 per student per semester (about 125 students) for all consumables (film, paper and chemicals). We use about 130 gallons of Dektol (and about the same of D-76) per semester. The students supply their own film and paper, except for some special projects (4x5 film, mural paper, for example). A 50% increase in chemical cost will mean the students will get less of the material for the special projects...and we may have to forego the mural printing projects...which they really enjoy...or will have to buy their own rolls of mural paper.

You may want to consider using Clayton or Freestyle house products. Kodak branded productes are not the only products on the market.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 2, 2008

There are also more economical ways of using Kodak chemistry. You can dilute Dektol 1+3 for your printing with amazing results (I much prefer Dektol this way). D76 is probably not as economical as using HC-110 at high dilutions. Or teach students how to use Rodinal. With my current developing technique I can develop 200 rolls of film with one 500ml bottle that's 15 bucks from Freestyle. Nothing wrong with teaching students darkroom economy.

Arista's own chemistry is pretty good too, I hear. I've never used it. I've always used Ilford or Kodak, or Formulary stuff. But that's mostly out of convenience. Lately I've started paying more attention to making the supplies last longer, so I test my fixer every time I use it instead of dumping it after a certain period of time. I use spent paper fixer for film fixing, and it works great as I use the same dilutions. Rodinal is the king of economy and a great developer too. I believe that mixing fixer from raw chemicals would be more economical too. It could be done in batches.

- Thomas

kodachrome64 · Oct 2, 2008

This is understandable since the cost of everything is going up. I'm sure this is nothing more than the cost of raw materials and/or transportation. Chemicals are heavy and transportation costs have to be staggering. They are staggering no matter what business you are in or how heavy your product is.

Developer shouldn't be a big concern, since as Thomas mentions, there are ways to develop economically. My main two devs are HC-110 and Rodinal, and one can be very economical with those two. Even if HC-110 increased another $5 or $10 per bottle, it really wouldn't phase me because it's not going to make a big difference per film. I also use D76 and XTOL which can both be diluted to 1+3 and in the case of D76 can even be home made if desired. Fixer for me is the biggest cost, and I decided to use Ilford Hypam for that which I can buy in 5L containers for cheap and dilute 1+4 (as opposed to 1+3 for Kodafix). Fixer can be reused for quite a while. Another good point Thomas mentioned is using hypo check instead of just doing 3 films or whatever.

I would like to see the OP's source as well. It will be funny if Kodak doesn't have anything to do with the production of chemicals anymore...maybe that will stop the round of Kodabashing.

gr82bart · Oct 2, 2008

kodachrome64 said:
maybe that will stop the round of Kodabashing.

Not on APUG unfortunately.

Regards, Art.

Lowell Huff · Oct 2, 2008

As a manufacturer of black and white chemistry, I can attest to the increase in raw material prices. We get them every day. This is not the cause of "huge" price increases in chemicals and media. The cause is the price of freight of the raw materials and finished goods to and from the manufacturing facility. We experience, sometimes as high as 25% fuel surcharge, on some shippments.
How does a user extend the budget? Compare unit costs, dilutions and productivity of the products. Don't be restricted by the "color of the label" be restricted by the results.

fschifano · Oct 3, 2008

What's been said about developers so far is good advice. And yes, the cost of fixer, often overlooked in the scheme of things, can make up a considerable portion of the chemistry budget. A very economical alternative to B&W fixers is Kodak's "Flexicolor Fixer and Replensisher". I use this exclusively for all my standard B&W processes, and have done so for a few years. It is less expensive to buy, per unit of working strength solution, than B&W rapid fixers, works faster, and lasts longer. There is no hardener, and at working strength has a nearly neutral ph. Fiber based papers wash out more easily, and RC papers are done in only a few minutes. For me, the choice was a no-brainer.

monkeykoder · Oct 3, 2008

Vaughn said:
Not fun news. The university gives me $28.61 per student per semester (about 125 students) for all consumables (film, paper and chemicals). We use about 130 gallons of Dektol (and about the same of D-76) per semester. The students supply their own film and paper, except for some special projects (4x5 film, mural paper, for example). A 50% increase in chemical cost will mean the students will get less of the material for the special projects...and we may have to forego the mural printing projects...which they really enjoy...or will have to buy their own rolls of mural paper.

The other choice is to go from the 80 hours of open darkroom time/week (7 days a week until mid-night), down to half days on weekends or something of that sort.

Vaughn

You work at Humboldt State or a local community college? I'm thinking maybe I should have gone there Sac State's photo classes are almost non-existant and the lab is only open about 6-8hrs a day and you only get about 2hrs/week to print.

Vaughn · Oct 3, 2008

Hey Monkey! Yes I work at Humboldt State. It is a bit amazing that we can be open for so many hours a week...basically Monday thru Thursday -- right after the last class of the day until midnight, and Fri/Sat/Sun from 8am to midnight. The darkroom is staffed mostly by volunteers and some work/study students. Not always a smooth running system, but it is the way is has been for 50 years (though I have only been around for the last 30 years...13 years as a student (this includes 10 years, post-graduation, of taking one unit and volunteering as a lab assistant) and 17 years as a university employee running the place.

We are lucky to have consistantly fine students. Students do not sign in to use the darkroom...one just shows up and starts printing. In my 17 years running the place I have had a couple of enlarging lenses walk off (one time a 6-element was replaced by a 4-element lens), but that is about it.

Perhaps because the Photo Area has always been a part of the Art Department, there has always been the philosophy that students need time to work on their art. It has always been an art-based program, the third established in the country...when the norm at the time was either commercially orientated, or under Journalism or Graphic Arts.

We have always used Kodak products, though I see that may have to change. The biggest issues are consistancy and ease/straight-forwardness of use. We have 3 beginning classes every semester -- that is 75 students who may never have been in a darkroom. I would love it if every one of those students paid strict attention in class, remembered everything they were shown and taught, and treated the equipment, chemical and their classmates with the upmost respect. But shit happens...regularly.

What an individual uses in their darkroom does not always translate well to a community darkroom.

I just received my chemical order that will get me thru the rest of the semester. We'll see what the New Year brings as far as price increases and I will explore how to reduce our costs if I must. In my last order the only Kodak product (and the shipping labels did not come from Kodak) that significantly raised in price was the Indicator Stop Bath.

Vaughn

monkeykoder · Oct 3, 2008

Yeah photography down here is definitely commercial based. Not only that but there are only like 3 classes a non-photography major can take and only one of them uses film so I had to turn my bathroom into a darkroom.

dynachrome · Oct 3, 2008

I have Flexicolor Fixer but haven't used it yet. Freestyle has a good selection of chemistry including its own brand and the excellent Clayton products.

kodachrome64 · Oct 7, 2008

Vaughn said:
In my last order the only Kodak product (and the shipping labels did not come from Kodak) that significantly raised in price was the Indicator Stop Bath.

Vaughn

That's good news. I use ISB and it is diluted so much that it wouldn't really matter to me what the cost was, honestly. I think I paid $8 for my last 16 oz bottle and I have used less than an ounce or two of it probably in 6 months. I think I use 8 mL to 500 mL to mix a working solution, and then use that until it is exhausted. It lasts a looooong time.

There really is something to be said for "darkroom economy" as Thomas put it. You can use Rodinal and HC-110 at almost any dilution you want. They are both insanely cheap. My standard dilution for HC-110 and Rodinal is 1+50. There is no need to use HC-110 at the Kodak dilutions of 1+32, etc. You can use it at 1+50 and 1+100 just like Rodinal. The times are very similar too IME. Some people skip stop bath and just use water, or use something like vinegar, but Kodak Indicator Stop Bath is dirt cheap. If it extends the life of the fixer, it is likely saving money because it is so inexpensive. Fixer can add up but there are economical ways to buy that and it can be reused many times.

Earl Dunbar · Oct 7, 2008

kodachrome64 said:
maybe that will stop the round of Kodabashing.

gr82bart said:
Not on APUG unfortunately.

Regards, Art.

I'm always amazed that no one ever thinks to call the Kodak pro support line and ask. The price of their toll free line hasn't changed.

Kodak raising chemistry prices

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