Kodak Quercetin

Ian Grant · Apr 18, 2009

Does anyone know what photographic use this chemical is as I have a jar full. It's an anti-oxidant.

It's marked "Not for Drug Use" and was manufactured by Eastman Kodak in the US but packaged by Kodak, London.

Ian

Kirk Keyes · Apr 18, 2009

Try this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin

It's a Flavan-3-ol and a polyphenol like tannin - Looks like it could be used as a developer itself...

And possibly carcinogenic. Interestingly it's found in capers at 1800 mg/kg. I knew there was a good reason not to eat capers.

cmacd123 · Apr 19, 2009

Ian Grant said:
It's marked "Not for Drug Use" and was manufactured by Eastman Kodak in the US but packaged by Kodak, London.

One of Kodak's side businesses is (or maybe now was) the manufacture of organic chemicals and lab chemicals, many of which have no photographic uses.
My understanding is the US Governement encouraged them in the first world war when many Chemicals that had been used in various industries were now unavailable from German suppliers.
Metol (Elon) was one of the first of these of course.
EK was also Licenced as a drug manufacturer and owned Stirling Drug for a while.

YES here it is from a web search "WAS"

"Acros Organics is a Fisher Scientific Worldwide company. Acros Organics’ roots lie with Eastman Kodak Laboratory Chemicals and Janssen Chimica which were brought together in 1994 to form Acros Organics. Acros Organics is the alternative source for fine chemicals in prepack and semi-bulk quantities and is offering more than 18,000 organic chemicals for research and industry. A great many of these products are also available in bulk quantities. As part of Fisher Scientific, Acros Organics is well positioned to reap the substantial economies of size that its new structure provides. It can develop stable, long-term strategies required for product and market development and for broadening its product differentiation capabilities. It gives Acros Organics a strong starting-position for winning new customers and improving its service to existing ones."

Photo Engineer · Apr 19, 2009

Quercetin is an ANTI-carcinogen. It appears to reduce cancer.

Kodak developed the micro still which allows micro vacuum distillation for the preparation of rare and difficult to obtain organic chemicals. They no longer are involved in this!

This compound is not a photo chemical AFAIK.

PE

ic-racer · Apr 19, 2009

100 - 250 mg three times per day for all that ails you
Dead Link Removed

railwayman3 · Apr 20, 2009

cmacd123 said:
One of Kodak's side businesses is (or maybe now was) the manufacture of organic chemicals and lab chemicals, many of which have no photographic uses.
My understanding is the US Governement encouraged them in the first world war when many Chemicals that had been used in various industries were now unavailable from German suppliers.
Metol (Elon) was one of the first of these of course.
EK was also Licenced as a drug manufacturer and owned Stirling Drug for a while.

Just found a website concerning the UK Kodak manufacturing sites:-

http://wwwuk.kodak.com/UK/en/corp/manufacture.jhtml?id=0.1.4.16&lc=en

It looks a long way out of date, as I believe both the Kirby and Annesley plants are now closed.

I have (somewhere) an old Kodak organic chemical catalogue from the 1960's or 70's....a thick book, listing literally thousands of the most obscure chemicals which they could supply at that time.

AgX · Apr 20, 2009

Yes, that Kodak website is seemingly not being updated since 2004.

AgX · Apr 20, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Quercetin is an ANTI-carcinogen. It appears to reduce cance

So, I can go on eating those capers (Königsberger Klopse...)

Kirk Keyes · Apr 20, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
Quercetin is an ANTI-carcinogen. It appears to reduce cancer.

That's interesting!

But here's some interesting info from an MSDS, and interestingly one for Quercetin made by Acros:
"Mutagenicity: Mutagenic effects have occurred in experimental animals." and,
"Has been found to cause cancer in laboratory animals."
http://www.hmdb.ca/labm/servlet/labm.mlims.showFile?tbl=tbl_chemical&id=123394258528017583

Here's a couple lines from the CDC, lifted from the paper, GENETIC POLYMORPHISMS AND BREAST CANCER RISK: A REVIEW (1999),
"Quercetin, an inhibitor of COMT that by itself does not cause tumor formation in the Syrian hamster model, produced greater tumor size and metastases when coadministered with estradiol than did hormone administration alone (88)."
http://www.cdc.gov/genomics/population/file/print/br_poly.pdf

I guess it's one of those "who do we beleive" things?!

Photo Engineer · Apr 20, 2009

Yes Kirk, there is evidence that could sway one to go either way.

Given the popularity of capers, and their long history of safe consumption with no finger pointing, I would say that it is ok, especially with the high level reportedly found in capers. I love capers myself on a good salad and with anchovies.

PE

Kirk Keyes · Apr 20, 2009

And I didn't mean you personally, but our respected sources.

And apples too, but people have been eating things for a long time and until recently, for the most part, almost all of them died at 40 or younger... Perhaps not long enough for effects to show.

I've long wondered how many compounds in foods that are commonly eaten that are carcinogenic and we've just not done any studies. The drug companies don't pay for it, unless they thing there are theraputic properties. And the FDA tries to figure this out, but there are some compounds at such low concentrations that it is not a big risk, but that doesn't mean there is no risk.

ic-racer · Apr 20, 2009

Many, anti-neoplastic agents are also carcinogens.

Photo Engineer · Apr 20, 2009

I wonder if anyone here has ever eaten an apple seed?

It turns out that some types actually taste quite good, but they contain a large dose (so to speak) of Cyanide. It turns out that the almond flavor of the seed is actually the trace of cyanide present. You would have to eat about 1/2 - 1 cup full to cause poisoning though, but the body is hyper sensitive to such toxic agents and therefore can detect it in low levels. Pity it tastes so good though.

PE

Kirk Keyes · Apr 21, 2009

Never eaten apples seeds, at least not on purpose.

The issue between poisons and carcinogenic compounds is that poisons often have a threshold dose where they are not harmful below that dose, and some are theraputic. Take asprin, below a certain dose, it's safe and useful, above that dose, and it's harmful. Carcinogens are pretty much all assumed to have no threshold (at least by the EPA) and so any dose it concidered harmful. Certainly, that may not be the case for all carcinogens, but I believe that's how they are all treated.

Photo Engineer · Apr 21, 2009

Actually, I was going to write more in my post above but was diverted at the time. Here is the rest.

The "Apricot cure" for cancer some years ago had a partial basis in the fact that apricot and peach pits contain cyanide as well. It turns out that cyanide starves cancer cells for oxygen and as recently described some medications that reduce blood flow to cancers also kill the cancers. Well, some tests with cyanide show the same thing, but of course at a dose high enough to cure, it kills. Some "wit" therefore got the idea of the Apricot cure. The medication was a serum derived from apricots that purported to cure cancer.

It was banned in the US, but in Mexico there were clinics that would give you apricot serum shots for cancer, claiming that it would cure you. By the time the serum was prepared though, I suspect that there was little or no cyanide left just so it didn't harm the patient. But then, maybe that was not connected to the cure at all. Who knows. Just a small side note on cyanide in fruit seeds and cancer.

Of course, Kirk is correct in his distinction between a carcinogen and a poison.

PE

Kirk Keyes · Apr 21, 2009

I think what you are remembering as the Apricot Cure was a chemical called "laetrile". Laetrile is a semi-synthetic form of amygdalin, which is extracted from the almond or apricot kernel.

From Wikipedia:
"Beta-glucosidase, one of the enzymes that catalyzes the release of the cyanide from amygdalin, is present in human small intestine and in a variety of common foods. This leads to an unpredictable and potentially lethal toxicity when amygdalin or Laetrile is taken orally."

I remember Steve McQueen as being the most famous person to die after recieving laetrile treatments in Mexico.

Photo Engineer · Apr 21, 2009

Yes, thats it Kirk. But what I think they missed in the evaluation, as it was not known then, was that cyanide would tend to kill the cancer. This led to the belief that it was the Laetrile that was the cure (if any was to be had) but it was the release or presence of cyanide that had a small beneficial effect on the healing of cancers, but an often bad effect on the patient.

Now we know that retarding oxygen supply or growth of new blood vessels in cancers can kill them off.

PE

Kodak Quercetin

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