Kodak publication J-107: Xtol for Small Tank and Tray Processing

Samuel Dilworth · Jan 19, 2020

Hello, all.

I’m looking for a PDF copy of an old Kodak publication, J-107, titled “KODAK XTOL Developer for Small Tank and Tray Processing”.

I’m curious how this developer was promoted by Kodak at the time, shortly after its introduction. Performance claims, etc. J-107 is mentioned in this PDF:

http://www.jobo-usa.com/images/archive/JQ13.pdf

… and listed in the ‘More Information’ section at the end of some other Kodak publications, such as early versions of J-109 (Xtol datasheet).

Does anyone happen to have a copy of this document they would be willing to share with me?

Thanks.

(I’ve been through the sticky thread “Foma, Ilford and Kodak resources”. It’s not there.)

Samuel Dilworth · Jan 20, 2020

Thanks for the tip, Greg. I did try the Wayback Machine to pull up URLs that hosted the J-107 publication long ago (that I found in Google Groups discussions), but the docs appear to have disappeared before they were crawled. Lots of dead redirects. I’m not sure how to search the Wayback Machine directly although I did try that too without success.

I’ve searched pretty hard for this.

There is some chat about J-107 on Google Groups, for example here:

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rec.photo.darkroom/2tEoTJZhYYU/discussion

One Dana Myers features frequently. For example here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.photo.darkroom/OmXKne2ELBk/UpE8c5sgReMJ

Myers has Instagram and Twitter accounts, but I don’t so can’t contact him via that medium. He seems like the kind of guy who might keep publications like that on an old hard drive.

Other familiar names in those old Xtol discussions include Paul Butzi and Dante Stella. Maybe I need to bug these strangers. I know I have a record of practically every PDF file I ever downloaded. Maybe they do too.

pentaxuser · Jan 20, 2020

Interesting link Samuel that you give to what was then the new developer called Xtol. I assume that you checked the Kodak website mentioned in the article and all traces of J 107 and 8 have now gone?. The article does not give any dates so I decided to see what the date for J-109 was. As an Xtol user I have bookmarked this publication and use it frequently . However when I tried to open it all I got was the Kodak sky and a message telling me this could not be found and yet I used it not more than few days ago

Very strange. Anyone else having success with finding J-109?

Has Kodak removed J-109 because we are getting too curious for our own good or is it still available to U.S. supporters but not to a "limey" who keeps asking questions about why K's bulk rolls are so expensive : D

I do hope things get no worse and I have to walk into whatever precinct it was in 'Frisco to report my own death like Edmond O' Brien

pentaxuser AKA Frank Bigelow

pentaxuser · Jan 20, 2020

It's OK folks I found it again using Google. I now have the old 2008 J-109 and the new Feb 2018 publication. Dadgummit, seems those young whippersnappers from Kodak have changed the way to get to J-109. So now we have two dates of Feb 2018 and March 2008 but can't see any other changes at first glance. Some varmit wants to confuse an old man.

I blame Mel Brooks for poking fun at me and Randolph S for indulging me in all those movies

OK it just leaves the serious stuff of the missing J-107. Any noos on this yet?

pentaxuser

Samuel Dilworth · Jan 20, 2020

Yes, the current J-109 sheet can be found here:

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/photographers-photo-printing/resources/chem-tech-info

On that page it’s just titled “KODAK XTOL Developer”. PDF here:

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/J-109_Feb_2018.pdf

Now if you’re looking for something else – the D-76 datasheet, for example – good luck! Kodak’s communication ain’t what it used to be.

Kodak’s amazing guides and product datasheets used to be a joy to peruse. I loved the depth of information, copywriting accuracy, and the jovial tone that presumably came easy at the height of Kodak’s relevance and self-confidence. That’s one reason I’d like to see the J-107 Xtol document. It was written in those heady days. How did it describe Xtol? Great claims were made for Xtol’s performance at launch.

Now too often we get documents like this:

https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sit..._Chemical_CATALOG_ITEM_NUMBER_UPDATE_2019.pdf

… a mess of typos, bad writing, and poor graphic design. On the units alone they’ve managed to squeeze all of these spelling and formatting inconsistencies into just two pages:

“1 gal”
“1- gal”
“1 -gal”
“1 GALLON”
“5 gal”
“5 gals”

pentaxuser said:
I now have the old 2008 J-109 and the new Feb 2018 publication. Dadgummit, seems those young whippersnappers from Kodak have changed the way to get to J-109. So now we have two dates of Feb 2018 and March 2008 but can't see any other changes at first glance.

The main difference is the Disposal section on page 5. The new document has more warnings and the phone numbers removed.

mshchem · Jan 20, 2020

Eastman Kodak hosted all this stuff for several years after Alaris was created. Alaris must have hoped this would go on forever.

Oren Grad · Jan 20, 2020

Samuel Dilworth said:
That’s one reason I’d like to see the J-107 Xtol document. It was written in those heady days. How did it describe Xtol? Great claims were made for Xtol’s performance at launch.

Have you read Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki's article "The Genesis of Xtol", in the Sept/Oct 1999 issue of Photo Techniques? It won't tell you what promotional language Kodak was using at the moment the product was introduced, but it does explain what the inventors thought they were accomplishing with the new product compared to then-existing ones.

Maris · Jan 20, 2020

I just had a look under my enlarger bench and found J-106 September 1996 KODAK XTOL developer for Replenished Processing Systems. But no J-107, unfortunately.

Samuel Dilworth · Jan 20, 2020

Thanks for looking, Maris.

Oren Grad said:
Have you read Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki's article "The Genesis of Xtol", in the Sept/Oct 1999 issue of Photo Techniques?

I have not. That sounds fascinating, and hopefully less elusive than this J-107. I’ll hunt it down.

Tim Gray · Jan 20, 2020

I’d love to get copies of any of the non-J-109 XTOL publications anyone has. I do have multiple versions of J-109 on my website if anyone needs them. I need to update it for the newer Alaris stuff...

https://125px.com/techdocs/kodak/

reddesert · Jan 20, 2020

Believe it or not, I just found copies of Kodak's Xtol publications J-107 (small tank / tray processing) from 1996, and J-108 (rotary tube processing) in a directory of Very Old Things on my computer. I am attaching them to this post, which will hopefully work. Tim Gray, I would be happy if you would download these and host them on your website. Thank you for maintaining it.

At first glance, J-107 doesn't seem that different from J-109 in what it covers, but I didn't look very closely yet.
Edit: at second glance, J-107 doesn't have the references to seasoned developer, or replenishment recommendations, that show up later in J-109.

MattKing · Jan 20, 2020

It looks to me like there were originally three different datasheets: one each for use in a regime using replenishment regime (J-106), for use in a regime using one-shot inversion agitation and for use in a regime using one-shot rotary processing.
J-109 seems to be an evolution showing a combination of the three.
It would be great if Maris could post a scan of J-106 (replenishment) as well, to make the trio complete.
I note that the recommendations for storage life in J-107 and J-108 suggest one year in a full, closed bottle - twice the recommendation in J-109.
I have a pdf copy of Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki's article "The Genesis of Xtol", from the Sept/Oct 1999 issue of Photo Techniques.
It is too large to upload it here.

Samuel Dilworth · Jan 21, 2020

reddesert said:
Believe it or not, I just found copies of Kodak's Xtol publications J-107 (small tank / tray processing) from 1996, and J-108 (rotary tube processing) in a directory of Very Old Things on my computer. I am attaching them to this post, which will hopefully work.

You’re a hero! Thanks for going to the trouble.

While we’re talking about old pubs, some might be interested in the attached version of the April 1998 J-109 datasheet. It differs from the one of the same date on Tim Gray’s site, notably the “Dilute Developer” > “Important” note on page 2.

MattKing said:
I note that the recommendations for storage life in J-107 and J-108 suggest one year in a full, closed bottle - twice the recommendation in J-109.

That makes me more confident in the storage life of this stuff.

MattKing said:
I have a pdf copy of Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki's article "The Genesis of Xtol", from the Sept/Oct 1999 issue of Photo Techniques.
It is too large to upload it here.

Already sourced from another kind forum member.

pentaxuser · Jan 21, 2020

MattKing said:
I note that the recommendations for storage life in J-107 and J-108 suggest one year in a full, closed bottle - twice the recommendation in J-109.
.

I wonder what made Kodak decide to be more conservative in its suggestion on shelf life? My experience with airless winebags would see to accord with Kodak's original suggestion of a year. In fact even a year may be conservative in a full, closed bottle

pentaxuser

Tim Gray · Jan 21, 2020

Thanks for the files. I've stuck all three up on my site. I also made sure the search function can find them - it was erroring out while indexing them for some reason.

titrisol · Jan 23, 2020

I have the j109 from 1999, send me a pm to share it

removed account4 · Jan 23, 2020

did they change the recipe between the original debut, when champion made it and now ?
is j109 the publication that suggests dilutions of 1:10 for contact prints ?

titrisol · Jan 26, 2020

I scanned the Sep.Oct 1999 PhotoTechniques article by Dick and Silvia "Genesis of Xtol"
If anyone is interested please let me know

Anon Ymous · Jan 26, 2020

titrisol said:
I scanned the Sep.Oct 1999 PhotoTechniques article by Dick and Silvia "Genesis of Xtol"
If anyone is interested please let me know

I'm interested in reading this. The magazine is gone, isn't it? Perhaps you could upload and share a PDF of the article.

MattKing · Jan 26, 2020

There is a file size problem. The "Genesis of XTol" article is too large to upload here.

AgX · Jan 26, 2020

Samuel Dilworth said:
On the units alone they’ve managed to squeeze all of these spelling and formatting inconsistencies into just two pages:

“1 gal” ....

Makes me think of a girl instead. And all dictionaries support this...

Tim Gray · Jan 26, 2020

I’d love to read the Photo Techniques article as well, if any one can share a copy...

titrisol · Jan 27, 2020

Can't upload it here.... but you can get it from this link

Anon Ymous · Jan 27, 2020

Thank you!

Tim Gray · Jan 27, 2020

Thanks!

Kodak publication J-107: Xtol for Small Tank and Tray Processing

Samuel Dilworth

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