Kodak price increase

tokam · Jan 17, 2023

In the overall scheme of things silver is a minor cost in the production of film and paper. An ounce of silver probably costs less than the retail price of a roll of Ektachrome 100 and definitely less than a bulk roll of Tri-X. I think that an ounce of silver would provide emulsion for many square metres of film. It's all the other costs that have pushed the film manufacturers to the current situation .

Sal Santamaura · Jan 17, 2023

BrianShaw said:
This was a trolling thread from the beginning… and has proven so.

I resent that characterization. Perhaps anyone who thinks it's justified might re-read my original post:

Sal Santamaura said:
It's become traditional for members to complain about the increasing cost of film and paper. While not understanding the value of such posts (buy it, don't buy it, go digital, whatever), I decided to provide a venue where Kodak's detractors can vent.

Today: Kodak Poised to Raise the Price of Film by Up to 40%:

Kodak Poised to Raise the Price of Film by Up to 40%

The hobby is about to become a lot more expensive.

petapixel.com

Have at it!

Note that I recognized the inevitability of this thread and stated how baffling I find the bitching it would include and all its siblings over the years have included. How can something that merely provides a place for what is going to happen anyway to exist be trolling?

albireo said:
I disagree that this was a trolling thread from the beginning. I found it an interesting thread, honestly.

Firstly, because I learnt about these new price increases.

Secondly, because I was interested in sampling the range of reactions to the news by forum users. Some people found it ok, some people found it barely acceptable, some people found it unacceptable and were attempting to suggest alternatives exist. All good, and overall an enjoyable read for me.

Then of course you have the smartar$es feeling the need to tell everyone off and adding absolutely nothing of value to the thread.

Which is puzzling. I mean, there are plenty of threads around to give a meaningful contribution to. You have no constructive opinion about the Kodak price increase? Is it a non-issue to you? Then just move on, man. Go take some pictures. Go make some replenished Xtol.

Thank you for that reasoned reply. Sadly, much of what you describe can be found in many threads, not just ones about Kodak price increases.

Anon Ymous · Jan 17, 2023

albireo said:
I disagree that this was a trolling thread from the beginning. I found it an interesting thread, honestly.

Firstly, because I learnt about these new price increases.

Secondly, because I was interested in sampling the range of reactions to the news by forum users. Some people found it ok, some people found it barely acceptable, some people found it unacceptable and were attempting to suggest alternatives exist. All good, and overall an enjoyable read for me.

Then of course you have the smartar$es feeling the need to tell everyone off and adding absolutely nothing of value to the thread.

Which is puzzling. I mean, there are plenty of threads around to give a meaningful contribution to. You have no constructive opinion about the Kodak price increase? Is it a non-issue to you? Then just move on, man. Go take some pictures. Go make some replenished Xtol.

Very well said.

removedacct1 · Jan 17, 2023

BrianShaw said:
This was a trolling thread from the beginning… and has proven so.

Yep, it was inevitable that this would draw out the “I Hate Kodak* And They Can Suck It” crowd.

I’m not thrilled that film (and paper) is getting as costly as it is, but you know what I am thrilled about? The fact is that in spite of the extreme circumstances the industry faces (which goes way beyond the cost of materials), film manufacturers are still putting out a high quality product which they support fully. I’m 100% in the camp of Grateful I Can Still Buy Film (even though I can afford less of it every year).

But I haven’t bought Kodak sheet films in many years, solely because it got too expensive for me. I’m now totally invested in Ilford’s FP4+, though I worry that it may exceed my budget in the next year or two also.

It’s human nature to voice our displeasure when we perceive that something we value a great deal is threatened by something like a price hike. I get that. The worst case suggested in the Petapixel article is a 40% increase in prices, but we don’t know that applies to film purchased in the USA. I’m going to be very, very surprised if the price increase here in the States is more than approximately 17%, which has been the average annual price increase Kodak has implemented for years now.

Either way, I remain grateful to be able to purchase any film at (almost) any price, to sustain me emotionally, creatively, and spiritually - especially over the past three years during which our household income has dwindled to “not quite enough to plug the leak” and we’ve become nearly totally isolated from friends, lost all social activities, and witnessed the death/severe illness of friends and acquaintances due to COVID. So if you want to label what I’ve said as “metabitching”, feel free to do so. I say what I say because it annoys me that there are people on this forum that do not recognize the privilege they experience, and rather than exercising a bit of gratitude, they choose to manifest entitlement.

*It’ll be Ilford, or Fuji, or even Foma next time.

BrianShaw · Jan 17, 2023

Hi Paul. Your observation and experience over the past couple of years isn’t unusual. Many of us share your experience. One thing I do is to take periodic walks in my neighborhood. It’s a bit of exercise and there were even a few photographic opportunities. But they were few and got boring/repetitive so I started talking to anyone I saw instead. Found out I had some interesting neighbors. No long-term friends (yet) but at least we can greet each other by name. One was a total surprise in the nicest way. There’s a really raggedy one-legged guy, with an equally raggedy wife, living with a family not too far away. The guy and/or wife are often sitting in a junk car smoking. I’d walk on the other side of the street. One day he called out to me and said, “Is that an old film camera?” so I crossed the street and he followed up with, “wow… a Kodak Duo”. I couldn’t believe my ears!

Don_ih · Jan 17, 2023

BrianShaw said:
There’s a really raggedy one-legged guy, with an equally raggedy wife, living with a family not too far away. The guy and/or wife are often sitting in a junk car smoking. I’d walk on the other side of the street. One day he called out to me and said, “Is that an old film camera?” so I crossed the street and he followed up with, “wow… a Kodak Duo”. I couldn’t believe my ears!

He''s probably on this forum....

mshchem · Jan 17, 2023

$475 USD. Don't expect me to believe that this is all due to shortages or we can't find workers. Like OPEC film is now an oligopoly. "A state of limited competition, in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers." From Google.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 17, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Cash. It has been used for thousands of years. You could try your good looks.

You mean bank trasnfer? Cecks? Who buys with cash overseas? How do you do that safely?

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 17, 2023

MattKing said:
You obviously aren't hearing the struggles I've been privy to about keeping costs in control, holding on to staff, obtaining necessary components at anything approaching a reasonable costs, actually obtaining things that are necessary (no matter what the cost), obtaining components in a timeframe that is practical, actually getting stuff shipped, no matter how much you are willing to pay ......
It is really rough out there.

Why is that? Aren't truckers back to work? Are we counting on China and they're behind due to their shutdowns?

Kino · Jan 17, 2023

Now its time to move again to the Lounge and let the dead horses be beaten to a pulp...

ant! · Jan 17, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
You mean bank trasnfer? Cecks? Who buys with cash overseas? How do you do that safely?

I was just back in Germany visiting family (living since 10 years in Canada and before in a few other countries), and in Germany credit card use is still messy. Half of the restaurants (in a city, not a village) did only accept cash or cash and German debit cards ("EC cards") and credit cards do not work. So, with the credit card to an ATM was a few times the only solution. Scandinavia is the opposite, only cards and rarely cash.
So, it depends...

When I arrived in Canada, paper cheques where still around which I had not see in Europe in the last 20 years before and never had used them in my life. This is now at least not really a thing anymore and bank transfers are easier (as easy as they are in Europe...).

BrianShaw · Jan 17, 2023

mshchem said:
$475 USD. Don't expect me to believe that this is all due to shortages or we can't find workers. Like OPEC film is now an oligopoly. "A state of limited competition, in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers." From Google.

Use that hoarde wisely! In addition to "ologopoly" and other reasons, some of it might just come down to "because we can". I recently asked a sandwich shop why they raised their prices significantly and feel entitled to tack on an unadvertized "COVID surcharge" to the price of the meal plus tax, I was told that it was a mall requirement to help keep them in business since profits are down due to bla bla bla." Their response when informed that there is no such mall requirements was callsi: "well, we can do that anyway". I feel sorry for small merchants who aren't making as much as they'd like, or need to... but neither am I. I was tempted to cancel the sandwich order because I was really hungry.

BrianShaw · Jan 17, 2023

Kino said:
Now its time to move again to the Lounge and let the dead horses be beaten to a pulp...

Too late; why bother at this point.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
You mean bank trasnfer? Cecks? Who buys with cash overseas? How do you do that safely?

Handing money directly to the merchant. It still happens.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2023

Kino said:
Now its time to move again to the Lounge and let the dead horses be beaten to a pulp...

Better yet, with all the trolling it is time for the Soap Box, driven there by the one who drove so many other threads there.

Mike Lopez · Jan 17, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
You mean bank trasnfer? Cecks? Who buys with cash overseas? How do you do that safely?

The same way you do it at your corner market or anyplace else on the planet. One of the very first things you'll see in the airport are kiosks to exchange your money, if you so desire. Cash money still works. (I'm assuming you aren't just trolling with these questions--if you are, you got me.)

Mike Lopez · Jan 17, 2023

BrianShaw said:
Too late; why bother at this point.

Seriously! The unintended humor in some of the posts throughout this thread is very amusing. Let's leave it where it is.

Huss · Jan 17, 2023

mshchem said:
$475 USD. Don't expect me to believe that this is all due to shortages or we can't find workers. Like OPEC film is now an oligopoly. "A state of limited competition, in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers." From Google.

View attachment 326965

44 rolls for $475?

Nice.

eli griggs · Jan 17, 2023

VinceInMT said:
Yep, the cost of everything is going up. One of our local breweries just raised the cost of a pint to $4 from the $3 it had been for 12 years. I won't be consuming any less of the product and film would have to get WAY more expensive before I stopped using it.

Yes, but that one time 25% raise in beer over the decade plus, goes to show a real need on the brewers needs, vs. the ridiculous, double digit rises in Kodak products in a long, annual habit of Kodaks profit taking, at the cost of those who have used their products loyally for decades, plus new users of film cameras.

What good is Kodak's growing facilities and additional shifts, if they are wholly dependent on large annual raises, that are no resulting in lowered cost to the end users?

Ilford should be supported instead, if they can get down further, with their lower priced but high quality films.

Bulk Ilford films 70mm and 135 should be the point of their spear to recruit their newest users and Kodak refugees, with lower prices.

Ilford HP5 Plus seemingly overnight jumped from about $150 U.S. to about $240 overnight, for 50 feet, a huge leap for an important product I and other 70mm film users can no afford easily.

Ilford needs to lower that price point so those of us using their 70mm film can more often use this special format.

Ilford should also offer FP4 plus or Pan-F and Delta 100 in 70mm bulk rolls to it's loyal users, if for nothing else to promote their choices of films, using 70mm as a lost leader.

If nothing else, Ilford could offer discounted 70mm in individual, black paper/plastic rolls, no backing, of 12 - 15 feet, ready to feed into various cassettes or backs.

70mm film users in most cases, are shooting multiple formats in all their films, especially when they are priced out of Kodak products.

IMO.

Sirius Glass · Jan 17, 2023

Am I the only one smelling Kodak hating?

BrianShaw · Jan 17, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Am I the only one smelling Kodak hating?

I believe that is just an opinion, and as good an opinion as any other. I see no hate. Don’t stir pots that don’t need stirring.

MattKing · Jan 17, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Why is that? Aren't truckers back to work? Are we counting on China and they're behind due to their shutdowns?

The components that go into making film are sourced from all around the world - not just from the USA. Many of them have to be ordered months in advance, and the film manufacturers are small fish in big ponds - they often lose out when there is competition with higher volume users, for components that are in short supply.
The skilled workers that design, make and distribute film can often work in many locations around the world - not just in the USA. And they are in demand, all around the world.
And the film gets shipped and sold all around the world - not just into the USA. And Eastman Kodak and Kodak Alaris need those non-USA markets and customers to remain viable.
The world is a lot more than the USA!

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 17, 2023

ant! said:
I was just back in Germany visiting family (living since 10 years in Canada and before in a few other countries), and in Germany credit card use is still messy. Half of the restaurants (in a city, not a village) did only accept cash or cash and German debit cards ("EC cards") and credit cards do not work. So, with the credit card to an ATM was a few times the only solution. Scandinavia is the opposite, only cards and rarely cash.
So, it depends...

When I arrived in Canada, paper cheques where still around which I had not see in Europe in the last 20 years before and never had used them in my life. This is now at least not really a thing anymore and bank transfers are easier (as easy as they are in Europe...).

Maybe they'll come back like film.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 17, 2023

BrianShaw said:
Use that hoarde wisely! In addition to "ologopoly" and other reasons, some of it might just come down to "because we can". I recently asked a sandwich shop why they raised their prices significantly and feel entitled to tack on an unadvertized "COVID surcharge" to the price of the meal plus tax, I was told that it was a mall requirement to help keep them in business since profits are down due to bla bla bla." Their response when informed that there is no such mall requirements was callsi: "well, we can do that anyway". I feel sorry for small merchants who aren't making as much as they'd like, or need to... but neither am I. I was tempted to cancel the sandwich order because I was really hungry.

They're not only competing with other film manufacturers but with digital as well. In fact that's their biggest competitor. People can just drop film and move on. So the idea that there isn't enough competition just isn't true.

mshchem · Jan 17, 2023

Huss said:
44 rolls for $475?

Nice.

Unique photo, included in the $475 is UPS ground and %6 Iowa sales tax. All the "Free Shipping" from B&H is paid for by charging a premium.
I think, especially Alaris is giving more priority to folks other than B&H and Adorama. I don't shoot a lot of color negative film, good thing as it's hard to find online. Unique photo sells Ektar and Portra for pickup at their retail stores.

Kodak price increase

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