Kodak or Ilford? (Stop Bath & Fixer)

jamusu · Aug 18, 2009

I have read many posts on APUG comparing and contrasting Kodak and Ilford products such as: film, film developers, and paper when Kodak still made it.

I have only used Kodak's Stop Bath and Fixer to develop my film and make my enlargements because they are what I was taught with. Out of curiosity, how many of you use Ilford's Stop Bath and Fixer to develop your film and make your enlargements?

Also, for those of you who have used both brands, and now use Ilford's Stop Bath and Fixer solely, what led to your decision in choosing Ilford over Kodak?

In short, what I am asking is are their ways of comparing and contrasting Kodak and Ilford's Stop Bath and Fixer in the same manner as their film, film developers, or papers? Are their any distinct differences, or are Stop Bath and Fixer basically the same no matter what brand you use?

Jamusu.

david b · Aug 18, 2009

They are virtually the same products. I mix and match depending on price. Check Freestyle for the pricing.

srs5694 · Aug 18, 2009

When properly formulated, I doubt if there'd be much difference between stop baths. They're just mild acids, after all. I have seen differences between brands in the intensity of the dyes used in indicator stop baths, but I don't know how Kodak and Ilford specifically compare on this score. Unless the stop bath is exhausted or very defective, I wouldn't expect it would have much of an impact on image quality.

Fixers also won't have much of an effect on image quality, assuming they're properly made and used. They do have other characteristics that might be of interest, though, such as speed of action, speed of post-fixing washing, odor, hardening or non-hardening, and delivery as a liquid or powder. Both Kodak and Ilford make several fixers that vary on several of these characteristics, so it's impossible to compare the brands per se. There are, however, endless threads here on APUG about the relative merits of rapid vs. non-rapid fixers, hardening vs. non-hardening fixers, and so on.

Note that some fixer characteristics, particularly combined with how the fixer is used, can affect image stability. Underfixing or improper washing can result in the image degrading over time. I've never heard of specific products being better or worse in this respect, but you can easily mis-use any product. This could cause problems if you switch products but don't adjust your processing accordingly. For instance, non-rapid fixers need more fixing time than do rapid fixers (as you might guess by their names), so if you switch from a rapid fixer to a non-rapid fixer, you must extend your fix times accordingly.

Sirius Glass · Aug 18, 2009

david b said:
They are virtually the same products. I mix and match depending on price. Check Freestyle for the pricing.

Good advice. That is what I do.

Steve

MattKing · Aug 18, 2009

I have a lot of loyalty to Kodak, so where the results and prices are reasonably similar, I'll choose Kodak.

That being said, I have no hesitation recommending Ilford, and do so regularly.

When it comes to Stop Bath and Fixer, I would suggest making your decision based on:

1) availability;
2) convenience in use or packaging;
3) differences in functionality;
4) price, including shipping price (if required).

The reason I have price listed last is that my volumes are moderately low, so the total extra cost involved in buying a slightly more expensive product isn't as important as issues of availability or convenience.

The reason that I have functionality listed so low is that the products are very similar in functionality. The major difference I can think of between the two is that Ilford's Stop Bath smells better .

In my case, the package sizes for Ilford's liquid chemistry work best for my cramped darkroom storage resources, so my last purchases of Stop Bath and Fixer have been Ilford.

Developers (film and paper), wetting agent and Hypo Clearing Agent remain resolutely Kodak, and if the packaging of liquid Kodak Rapid Fixer changes for the better (and I can find it locally) loyalty will bring me back to Kodak there!

Matt

PhotoJim · Aug 18, 2009

Ilford's stop bath is based on citric acid, Kodak's on acetic acid. Otherwise there is not much to choose between the stop baths and fixers of the two companies. They are all reliable.

I tend to prefer Ilford because they come in metric measurements and I mix in metric measurements. Some Kodak chemicals come in metric, but the larger packages tend to be in awkward (for me) US gallons.

George Collier · Aug 18, 2009

A slight diversion from your question, but you might consider switching to an alkaline fixer such as TF4 at some point. Acidic stop baths are not used with it, it works very fast (1 minute fixing with fiber papers) and it washes out much easier than acidic fixers.
Since switching, I no longer use an acidic stop, just water with agitation (there are many threads on this forum about this..)
It might be more expensive than Kodak or Ilford chems, I haven't compared, as a gallon lasts me for a long time.

david b · Aug 18, 2009

I should clarify.

I currently have:
22, one gallon boxes of Kodak Rapid Fix
8, one gallon bags of Dektol
13, one liter bottles of Ilford Warm Tone Developer
1, five gallon box of Dektol

I think I'm set for a while

Tref Hopkins · Aug 18, 2009

Mix and match. To be perfectly honest I use a frequently changed tray of plain water for stop unless I'm lith'ing, when I make up a mild citric acid.

Differences between commercial rapid fixes are so minor as to be negligible. There *are* alternative fixers out there that might be very worthwhile using in certain contexts - mainly lith printing and outrageous toner gymnastics (assuming we're restricting ourselves to commercially coated papers in discussion) - but that's a whole different ballgame. Anchell or the Photographer's Formulary or Rudman's Lith printing book are all worth a close read in this context... As is an old copy of the Silverprint manual if you can find one! (like golddust...)

Chris Lange · Aug 18, 2009

I generally use Ilford Rapid Fix, but my stop just depends on the mood. My previous stock was Kodak Indicator Fix and my current solution is IlfoStop.

Developerwise, I'm all over the place, I have:

Ilford ID-11
Kodak D-76
Ilford Perceptol
Ilford Microphen
Acufine

and have used all of the above in addition to DD-X, LC-29, Rodinal, and TMAX Dev

Colin Corneau · Aug 18, 2009

I generally use Ilford fixer because it is non-hardening -- that means I can tone prints (I usually print FB papers and selenium tone afterwards) a lot easier.

In terms of just quality, they're both fine products which work excellently when used as directed. It just depends on what you want to specifically do.
All other things being equal, go for price.

Chazzy · Aug 18, 2009

I use Ilford Rapid Fix, but I don't believe that I've ever seen Ilford stop bath for sale. I'll have to check with B&H and see whether they carry it.

jamusu · Aug 18, 2009

Thanks for the excellent answers guys. I was just curious to see if their are any differences between the two.

Jamusu.

Aurum · Aug 19, 2009

For me the difference between Ilford products and Kodak products in the UK, is the easier availability of the home team.

Price wise, TBH, Stop and fix are cheap as chips anyway. Its not a big issue

winger · Aug 19, 2009

Since no one else has mentioned them, I'll add that I use Ilford developers and rapid fix, but I use Sprint stop bath. It's an indicator one and actually smells slightly vanilla - not bad. I'd have to look at the bottle, but I think it's a citric acid one.

wogster · Aug 19, 2009

Chazzy said:
I use Ilford Rapid Fix, but I don't believe that I've ever seen Ilford stop bath for sale. I'll have to check with B&H and see whether they carry it.

Yeah they do, I have a bottle here, Ilford low odour indicator stop bath, Ilford catalogue number 1893870. As for fixer, it depends entirely on what is available when shopping, currently using Ilford stop and fix with Kodak D76 which was a little cheaper then ID11..... I'm in Canada so all this stuff is imported, I don't care whether it's imported from the US, the UK or elsewhere.

Clay2 · Aug 23, 2009

I choose them to match the film and paper I am using.
Kodak for Kodak film and fiber paper, Ilford for Ilford film and Ilford Multi-contrast RC paper.

/Clay

PhotoJim · Aug 23, 2009

Clay2 said:
I choose them to match the film and paper I am using.
Kodak for Kodak film and fiber paper, Ilford for Ilford film and Ilford Multi-contrast RC paper

There's no need at all to match. Ilford and Kodak rapid fixers are interchangeable. Ilford and Kodak powdered (sodium thiosulfate) fixers are interchangeable. Kodak and Ilford stop baths are based on different acids, but are similarly effective. One smells better than the other.

Developers are different from brand to brand (with the odd exception, e.g. Kodak D-76 = Ilford ID-11). Sometimes, however, a competing company's developer might be preferable with another company's film.

I tend to use PMK (which is produced by no one, really; the formula is commonly available and a few companies manufacture it for sale) and Kodak HC-110 developers, and occasionally homemade D-76, when I'm developing film. However, I tend to use Ansco 130 for paper and Ansco has been out of business for decades. (Again, I make it from scratch; the formula is now public domain.)

WolfTales · Aug 23, 2009

I started off using Ilford for everything (film, paper, chems) but switched to Kodak now for chems, and will be switching papers shortly as well.

It's good that Ilford can provide everything in house since all the ingredients are uniform and make it easy for the beginner.

However, it's bad, I feel, because they can't specialize in any one thing, so some of their products I feel are weaker then others or could use more refinement.

Uncle Bill · Aug 23, 2009

With developers I am partial to D-76, Xtol and Rodinal, with stop and fix I moved from Kodak to Ilford a couple of years back because of the metric measurement. I wish Kodak would at least post metric measurements for those of us who moved on from Imperial.

Kodak or Ilford? (Stop Bath & Fixer)

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