Kodak LORR Starter and Replenisher workflow

Radost · Dec 28, 2022

Hi,
My Fuji Hunt developer is year and a half old an I have a bunch of film from … Eastern Europe that I want to develop.
I dont want to risk them with old developer

From what I am reading my fuji Hunt Bleach and fix is probably ok So I am thinking of going Kodak LORR starter and Replenisher way.
I got the mixing formula But I have a few questions.

860ml of the developer replenisher, which you have to mix per instructions on the box
18ml of LORR developer starter
Add water to make 1L

Is it better to mix all 5 litters of developer replenisher like Fuji Hunt?
Approximately How long does the starter land Replenisher last?
How many films can I process in 1L LORR c41? What are the timing adjustments?
Processing in Paterson Tank

ashcorra · Dec 28, 2022

This is how I do it, mind you I am using it with a Jobo tank and inverting by hand:
I buy several plastic 5 liter water dispenser jugs(the ones I buy are $7 from Big Lots, I don't know if you are in America..)and they have the markings on the side for each liter which I have measured myself and verified are correct. I mix my Stock Solution Developer by pouring 4 liters of distilled water into jug + Parts A+B+C of the Kodak C41 Lorr Developer and then top it off with 272 mililiters of distilled water in order to make it 5 liters. Then to make the Working Solution of the Developer I take 3,815 ml of Stock Solution from previous step + 150 ml of starter + 1,035 ml of distilled water which makes 5 liters of working solution. This way you never expose your solution to air because you never have to open the jugs. And you can dispense however much you need each time, and it's all already mixed for you. It sounds like a lot buy trust me it isn't. Then I subsequently mix each step after that in it's own jug.

- Per Kodak

Radost · Jan 25, 2023

ashcorra said:
This is how I do it, mind you I am using it with a Jobo tank and inverting by hand:
I buy several plastic 5 liter water dispenser jugs(the ones I buy are $7 from Big Lots, I don't know if you are in America..)and they have the markings on the side for each liter which I have measured myself and verified are correct. I mix my Stock Solution Developer by pouring 4 liters of distilled water into jug + Parts A+B+C of the Kodak C41 Lorr Developer and then top it off with 272 mililiters of distilled water in order to make it 5 liters. Then to make the Working Solution of the Developer I take 3,815 ml of Stock Solution from previous step + 150 ml of starter + 1,035 ml of distilled water which makes 5 liters of working solution. This way you never expose your solution to air because you never have to open the jugs. And you can dispense however much you need each time, and it's all already mixed for you. It sounds like a lot buy trust me it isn't. Then I subsequently mix each step after that in it's own jug.

- Per Kodak

Thank You.
How much do you use to replenish by film ?
I am using Paterson tanks so amount might be different for Jobo.

Donald Qualls · Jan 25, 2023

Radost said:
How much do you use to replenish by film ?

Kodak has a table for that (publication Z-131?) -- it depends on the type and format of the film, but generally ISO 400 or faster gets one replenishment rate, slower films get another. The table has different lengths of 135, 110, and 120 at the least; it might (I don't have it here to look at) also include 127 and 126 (12 and 20 exposure). Ideally, you'd run test strips and measure with a colorimeter to verify everything is on spec and adjust replenishment rate as needed, but I found, at my volume of processing, things didn't drift appreciably over the year or so I ran color regularly (I'll be starting that up again soon).

Radost · Jan 26, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
Kodak has a table for that (publication Z-131?) -- it depends on the type and format of the film, but generally ISO 400 or faster gets one replenishment rate, slower films get another. The table has different lengths of 135, 110, and 120 at the least; it might (I don't have it here to look at) also include 127 and 126 (12 and 20 exposure). Ideally, you'd run test strips and measure with a colorimeter to verify everything is on spec and adjust replenishment rate as needed, but I found, at my volume of processing, things didn't drift appreciably over the year or so I ran color regularly (I'll be starting that up again soon).

I dont see them mention replenishment for hand tanks. I agitate a lot for C41. Do you think replenishment should be a lot more in that case? Kodak recommends minimum agitation for those processors.
Is 2 liter a good size for replenished used c41 solution or 1liter is ok.
I am looking for a user experience on hand Paterson tanks.
I remember PE gave the time adjustment for LORR without replenishment but can not find it.

Donald Qualls · Jan 27, 2023

I don't know any reason to expect that small tank processing would require more replenishment per roll than an auto processor. Replenishment is meant to offset exhaustion. Oxidation is the only place a small tank will put more stress on the chemistry than an auto line -- and I don't know that it will do that. For my own use, I've used the swizzle stick with my Paterson tanks for C-41, vs. inversion, in order to minimize oxidation, and had good results even though I was sometimes processing only a couple rolls a month. I expect this will work the same now that I have C-41 film for 4x5, given that my Yankee Agitank can't be inverted anyway (agitation is by sloshing).

Kodak's official stance is to use C-41 in small tanks as a one-shot, but many of us here have replenished Flexicolor for (in a few cases) years on end; it makes a significant difference in processing cost.

For storage bottle size, it should be at least as big as the largest volume you'll need in your tank, but you gain nothing by making the working solution storage bigger than that.

I don't know any reason you'd need different time adjustment for Flexicolor LORR working solution as opposed to the color developer in a kit like those from Tetenal, Cinestill, etc. The developers have the same initial process time/temp, so they ought to exhaust at a very similar rate.

Radost · Jan 27, 2023

I found it.
PE posted that long time ago. RIP

Radost · Jan 27, 2023

This is for a pint.
So for a liter I assume I can double that

Donald Qualls · Jan 27, 2023

Radost said:
This is for a pint.
So for a liter I assume I can double that

You should be safe in doubling both the number of rolls before incrementing the time and the total number before discarding the tank solution.

Of course, with LORR replenishment, you can process about twice as many rolls before you use up a liter of replenisher. After one liter of replenisher, therefore, you're about even with reusing the solution and extending time; continue replenishing, however, and you start to save significantly -- your one liter of startup (which actually needs only about 3/4 liter of replenisher plus some starter and water) plus two liters of replenisher can do more than sixty rolls (vs. ~48 done as above -- accounting for each liter of working solution using only about 3/4 liter of replenisher to mix), and by the time you've used up the 4+ liters of replenisher left from the original 5L package after mixing a liter of tank solution, you'll have processed close to 130 rolls (vs. ~75 rolls with reused and extended development as above).

Of course, Kodak recommends keeping the replenisher for a maximum of six months, but in good storage (wine bags, Stop Loss bags, etc.) it'll last longer than that. A year is conservative if your storage is impermeable to oxygen. And PET bottles upcycled from soft drinks work great for storing the tank solution.

mshchem · Jan 27, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
You should be safe in doubling both the number of rolls before incrementing the time and the total number before discarding the tank solution.

Of course, with LORR replenishment, you can process about twice as many rolls before you use up a liter of replenisher. After one liter of replenisher, therefore, you're about even with reusing the solution and extending time; continue replenishing, however, and you start to save significantly -- your one liter of startup (which actually needs only about 3/4 liter of replenisher plus some starter and water) plus two liters of replenisher can do more than sixty rolls (vs. ~48 done as above -- accounting for each liter of working solution using only about 3/4 liter of replenisher to mix), and by the time you've used up the 4+ liters of replenisher left from the original 5L package after mixing a liter of tank solution, you'll have processed close to 130 rolls (vs. ~75 rolls with reused and extended development as above).

Of course, Kodak recommends keeping the replenisher for a maximum of six months, but in good storage (wine bags, Stop Loss bags, etc.) it'll last longer than that. A year is conservative if your storage is impermeable to oxygen. And PET bottles upcycled from soft drinks work great for storing the tank solution.

These are all good points. In full PET bottles unused solutions keep almost indefinitely. I have a 1/2 gallon PET juice bottle full of C41 developer replenisher, made with RO water (I let sit for a couple weeks, let the air come out), this solution is almost 1 year old, not discolored, it's fine. PET beverage bottles are amazing technological products. Not for use where kiddies are exposed.
Donald you got this absolutely correct!!!

mshchem · Jan 27, 2023

I got an order from Unique Photo, has the seemingly out of date code. It's fine, I suspect that it's taken goodness knows how long to get here from China.

Radost · Jan 27, 2023

mshchem said:
I got an order from Unique Photo, has the seemingly out of date code. It's fine, I suspect that it's taken goodness knows how long to get here from China.

Just found out when the date has AB after means manufacturing date.

MattKing · Jan 27, 2023

mshchem said:
I got an order from Unique Photo, has the seemingly out of date code. It's fine, I suspect that it's taken goodness knows how long to get here from China.

Radost said:
Just found out when the date has AB after means manufacturing date.

So out of curiosity, what date is on it, and does it have AB at the end?

Radost · Jan 27, 2023

03012022AB

MattKing · Jan 28, 2023

Radost said:
03012022AB

I read this as meaning a date of manufacture of either:
1) March 1, 2022; or
2) January 3, 2022.
Any other suggestions?

mshchem · Jan 28, 2023

My batch, bought about a month ago

mshchem · Jan 28, 2023

Looks like year/month/day

MattKing · Jan 28, 2023

mshchem said:
Looks like year/month/day

Probably - but as there are more digits on yours, and as it is beside a box with Kodak Alaris badging ....?

Radost · Jan 28, 2023

MattKing said:
Probably - but as there are more digits on yours, and as it is beside a box with Kodak Alaris badging ....?

Might have added the 20
WIll check when i get home.

Radost · Jan 28, 2023

Does anybody else does lorr c41 in hand tanks?

MattKing · Jan 28, 2023

Can both of you indicate whether the badging says Kodak Alaris, or says Sino Promise?

mshchem · Jan 28, 2023

Everything is still in Alaris labels. Not what this means? Old stock, using up labels? I wonder if there's someone in China on this forum who knows what is going on with Sino Promise???

sillo · Jan 28, 2023

I just got a batch in from Unique with 2022 production codes too. I'll check my labels next time I'm in my darkroom. My previous batch I got from Miami Digital had a 2021 date code on it and mixed earlier this month. The rolls processed with this batch did not pass my personal eye test. Not sure how long these concentrates are good for, but I guess 2 years is too much?

MattKing · Jan 28, 2023

mshchem said:
View attachment 327860 View attachment 327861 View attachment 327862

Everything is still in Alaris labels. Not what this means? Old stock, using up labels? I wonder if there's someone in China on this forum who knows what is going on with Sino Promise???

I think those are best before dates, not manufacturing dates - No AB on the code. The sale of that business segment to Sino Promise completed November 1, 2020.

mshchem · Jan 28, 2023

MattKing said:
I think those are best before dates, not manufacturing dates - No AB on the code. The sale of that business segment to Sino Promise completed November 1, 2020.

The bottles have AB I'm pretty sure this is old stuff. Made prior to Covid and the apparent collapse of Sino Promise. I wonder if Wuxi China plant is still going? I will use this, no worries.

Kodak LORR Starter and Replenisher workflow

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