Kodak Infrared Film to be discontinued - May 07

DrPablo · Apr 8, 2007

I ask just because Fuji is the only company other than Kodak with as comprehensive a product line. I guess EIR is a sort of novelty film, but Fuji is the only company that could put out an equivalent. As for an HIE equivalent, neither SFX nor the Rollei IR is anything close to HIE. I guess the Maco/Efke 820 is closer.

htmlguru4242 · Apr 8, 2007

That's too bad, HIE was an interesting film. Kind of a pain to work with compared to Konica IR750 (which met its demise a few years back), but it was fast and sensitive to longer wavelengths.

If anyone hasn't tried HIE yet, grab a roll before it goes away and try it out; it's very different from anything else that's currently available.

AgX · Apr 9, 2007

DrPablo said:
I ask just because Fuji is the only company other than Kodak with as comprehensive a product line. I guess EIR is a sort of novelty film, but Fuji is the only company that could put out an equivalent. As for an HIE equivalent, neither SFX nor the Rollei IR is anything close to HIE. I guess the Maco/Efke 820 is closer.

I am not sure about the sensitations of all the BW IR film that were on the market 40 years or so back in time. From then on the HIE was (is) the most far reaching in sensitation.

Concerning the 2007 Maco IR 820 vs the Rollei IR. I know about the sensitation of the former only by an oral description of its values released by Maco. But any major differences seem rather to be down at log(sens) of -2.5 something.
So when comparing IR films by graphics it is always good to look not only at the wavelengths but at the the log values too.
Furthermore there are different types of graphics. The least you can learn from are those wedge spectras. The best is to keep within one manfacturer. But this makes comparing a bit dull…

Keep to photos. But then one would have to state lighting, type of vegetation (s. a post above).
Best would be several films on some (described) subject, same time.

AgX · Apr 9, 2007

Would someone be so nice and send me a pm telling me how I can edit those typing errors in my postings.

colrehogan · Apr 9, 2007

This is an interesting development. Thanks for posting it. I have used EIR and HIE quite a lot - and digital color IR just doesn't seem like the same 'false color' effect to me. I'll have to see about getting some more.

nighthawkjw · Apr 9, 2007

I've been an HIE-135 user for two years and have established it as my chosen medium. This news is not sitting well with me, although I new it would one day happen.

I know that Ilford responded favorably to a group effort from APUG to keep their IR film in production, which is what prompted me to join. I am now asking those involved in that previous effort with Ilford to please contact me about what must happen to petition Kodak to continue their production of infrared films.

Anyone who can share their info with me about any contacts at Kodak, please email me. If there is truth in it, perhaps the decision can be changed. If this news is incorrect and Kodak is NOT discontinuing the manufacture of infrared films, that information needs to be shared.

Many thanks.

James C. Williams
nighthawkjw@yahoo.com

Tim Gray · Apr 9, 2007

This saddens me as well. I hope its not true. I've just gotten into B&W film in the last year. I did my first roll of HIE about 3 weeks ago and was planning on ordering a bunch real soon.

rmazzullo · Apr 9, 2007

I spoke to Kodak today....

Hello all,

The loss of B&W and the color infrared is real. The source at Kodak quoted me a minimum of 20 rolls to order either one before the cut. I asked who the best dealer would be to get B&W or color infrared, and he mentioned Adorama (for me, anyway, because I am in NYC). The Kodak guy mentioned that they really do not produce that much of either one, compared to regular color and B&W films, and that it was classed as a "consumer item" as opposed to being a scientific film. I asked about bulk rolls of either one, and I was told they do not offer that packaging for either one.

In the aerial film department, Kodak already discontinued SO-734. There is a pdf on the aerial films section of the Kodak website that lists how many of the aerial films that are already gone. I can buy some aerochrome III 1443 color infrared, but in a roll 9.5 inches wide by 200 feet long, for about 1800.00. Thats about 960 sheets of 4x5 film. More than I can use before it goes bad.

Thanks,

Bob Mazzullo

aldevo · Apr 9, 2007

I can also confirm what Bob has already posted. I spoke to a Boston-area photographic supply retailer a couple hours ago and they confirmed that it is "al fin" for HIE in Spring 2007.

This retailer is declining to order more inventory from Kodak, since they are already close to short-dating what they have on hand and they no longer are willing to place orders on behalf of individiual customers to Kodak after a very bad experience with customer film orders to AgfaPhoto in 2005.

Martin Reed · Apr 11, 2007

Just heard from a serious HIE user (has based his entire technique around it for 30 years) who managed to contact a planner in the US via Kodak UK, who confirmed both films are to go.

It seems doubtful if Kodak will deliver a definitive statement about this - when Ektar 25 and Technical Pan went it was a similar scenario, gradual awareness & by the time the writing was on the wall it was too late, there was very little material left in the system, especially roll format.

In all probability the last of the films were coated some time ago, and the end of May date is just an estimate of when the existing stock is expected to be worked out.

Petzi · Apr 11, 2007

In the case of Technical Pan, the manufacturing plant that was used to make it was demolished before the discontinuation of the film was announced. In the case of the IR films, I wouldn't be surprised if the situation was similar, given that they have been on the market for such a long time now. These films have made it into various photo books that I read when I was a boy...

Helen B · Apr 11, 2007

HIE not not discontinued

Martin Reed said:
Just heard from a serious HIE user (has based his entire technique around it for 30 years) who managed to contact a planner in the US via Kodak UK, who confirmed both films are to go.

It seems doubtful if Kodak will deliver a definitive statement about this - when Ektar 25 and Technical Pan went it was a similar scenario, gradual awareness & by the time the writing was on the wall it was too late, there was very little material left in the system, especially roll format.
...

I got the same message after my game of telephone tag yesterday. Thanks to Martin for giving us all some warning.

Best,
Helen

Martin Reed · Apr 11, 2007

not not not discontinued?

My UK wholesaler has now told me that only the colour infrared is being discontinued! I was about to order a stack of the black & white for resale stock but will have to hold off until the issue is resolved. So for the time being, anyone who has an interest in HIE please keep questioning the Kodak supply chain until there's a consistent response.

aldevo · Apr 11, 2007

I emailed Freestyle Photo in CA last evening and hope to get a response later today.

Even so, I expect that the earlier response I received from my metro-Boston retailer will prove correct.

Ultimately, I think the retailers are going to prove a more reliable source of information. I tend to doubt Kodak Representatives can tell us a film is discontinued unless they are given instructions by Kodak to do so. I could be wrong about that, but that conjecture is consistent with the definition of "represenatative".

ben-s · Apr 11, 2007

Two words: Damn and Blast!
I've just started using HIE, and they go and knock it on the head. Just typical.
I really like EIR too.
It's just a pity the stuff is so expensive, or I'd buy a crate of each.
It's really sad to see these films disappearing.

rmazzullo · Apr 11, 2007

longevity of Kodak B&W and Color IR in a deep freeze

Hello all,

I just got an e-mail from Kodak in response to my question regarding deep freezing B&W and / or color infrared. They did NOT specify how much longer the film would last in a deep freeze, but they DID say it must be stored at 10 - 15 degrees Fahrenheit. What I interpreted by reading between the lines is that it will last longer if stored in a deep freeze.

I guess it's time to save up some money (or break out the credit card) and buy a brick or two or three. Of each. And a freezer capable of zero degrees F. And hope that ConEd doesn't plunge me into darkness like they did with Queens a while back during the summer.

If you have a ton of cash to buy the 9.5 inch roll of aerochrome III color infrared (and have it slit down to size), you can get it cut down to size (4x5) or...dare I say 120 size? That is, if anyone knows if a bulk loader for 120 even exists, and how to attach backing paper and load up a 120 spool.

Also, years ago, when color IR first came out, it was developed in process E-4, then it disappeared, to be later ressurected for process E-6. So maybe someday color IR will return. But then again, years ago, digital image sensors that could pickup IR didn't exist.

I have to find out what, if any, aerial B&W exists.

Damn, bugger and blast...

Thanks,

Bob Mazzullo

ben-s · Apr 11, 2007

Ok, I've just phoned Kodak UK, and was told: "As far as I can see, the films are not discontinued, but the person who would know properly has gone home"
They are going to call me tomorrow when they have spoken to the other person.

I'll post again when they ring back.

AgX · Apr 11, 2007

Referring to my post at the begin of this thread:
If needed, would there be a dealer who, not even daring, but just offering to cut false-color IR aero stock down to sizes, with the outcome of the second round of the Ilford ULF campaign?
Is there really such great interest as posts on this thread indicate?

rmazzullo said:
I have to find out what, if any, aerial B&W exists.

Bob Mazzullo

For IR there are:

-) Kodak
Well; I am out of reach of my library thus I cannot state the sensitivity of the Kodak BW aerial films.
-) Agfa
Above 750nm there are:
Aviphot PAN 80
Aviphot PAN 200
Aviphot PAN 400S (a film already cut to sizes by Maco)
-) Foma
too short sensitized
-) Tasma
could be, but their server holds back datasheets
-) I guess one of the four(??) independent chinese manufacturers has something on offer (Lucky in the 90ties had a full range of photo films to be comparable to the range of Agfa or so.)

Terence · Apr 11, 2007

And Efke 820c

eyetwist · Apr 11, 2007

HIE dating

called a couple suppliers here on the west coast to check on the expiration dates of the HIE they currently have in stock - both reported 11/07. has anyone seen dates on HIE that go into 2008 or 2009?

if HIE is truly discontinued & it's time to stock up, definitely want to get the freshest supply.

AgX · Apr 11, 2007

Terence said:
And Efke 820c

The poster I answered to had it about aerial stock.

Terence · Apr 11, 2007

My bad.

aldevo · Apr 11, 2007

aldevo said:
I emailed Freestyle Photo in CA last evening and hope to get a response later today.

Even so, I expect that the earlier response I received from my metro-Boston retailer will prove correct.

Ultimately, I think the retailers are going to prove a more reliable source of information. I tend to doubt Kodak Representatives can tell us a film is discontinued unless they are given instructions by Kodak to do so. I could be wrong about that, but that conjecture is consistent with the definition of "represenatative".

Well, I heard back from Freestyle...and the only word is that there is no word. Verbatim:

"We hear the same rumors as everyone else hears. Until an announcement
by Kodak is made I can't see how anyone can confirm if the rumor is true
or not."

Anybody else get the feeling that they hear these sorts of questions a lot these days and are feeling a bit fatigued?

wirehead · Apr 11, 2007

If it weren't that they'd get flamed for all sorts of Kodak ills, starting with promoting Ektachrome over Kodachrome, Super-XX being discontinued, Pantomatic-X being discontinued, etc. in such a way that makes Ilford not making Delta 3200 available in whole-plate format seem like the act of a saint, I'd say that Kodak needs to drop a partial PR person here.

The problem is, I bet they've laid off enough "redundant" folks that even if they did decide to make an announcement, they couldn't effectively get it out to the right places anyway.

I suspect that more damage is being done by them not announcing stuff than is being done by actually dropping the films.

Martin Reed · Apr 12, 2007

aldevo said:
....... "We hear the same rumors as everyone else hears. Until an announcement by Kodak is made I can't see how anyone can confirm if the rumor is true or not."

Do you get the feeling that this is proceeding along the lines that the manufacturers prefer? My feelings on being told the materials were going was to try to celebrate the passing, lay in plenty of film so that there's something of a buffer stock for people to draw from and maybe try to promote an exhibition of new work using HIE. After all, this is not just another amateur colour neg. film, HIE is a unique material that has been available for at least half a century and has been used for a vast amount of significant work. Instead it will be a whimper rather than a bang, and the real losers are the significant users who had based techniques around it - they are forced to lay in some stock, but with no definitive statement either way will probably be unable to commit themselves to enough.

Kodak Infrared Film to be discontinued - May 07

DrPablo

htmlguru4242

AgX

AgX

colrehogan

nighthawkjw

Tim Gray

rmazzullo

aldevo

Martin Reed

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Petzi

Helen B

Martin Reed

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aldevo

ben-s

rmazzullo

ben-s

AgX

Terence

eyetwist

AgX

Terence

aldevo

wirehead

Martin Reed

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Kodak Infrared Film to be discontinued - May 07

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