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Kodak Hypo Clear question


I'm affraid this is not correct. The following text precedes the Ilford archival sequence (5-minute final wash) in all their documents: When optimum permanence is needed, perhaps for archival storage of prints, the following fixing and washing sequences at18–24°C/65–75°F (including wash water) are recommended using ILFORD WASHAID.

It's amazing how low the thiosulfate levels go after HCA and a 5 min wash only as can be seen from these two documents:

http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=296 (Part one)
http://www.film-and-darkroom-user.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=344 (Part two)
 
Outstanding work!
 

I stand corrected: Ilford does indeed indicate only five minutes of washing without toning. With toning, however, they recommend 30 minutes on their web page devoted to optimum permanence https://www.ilfordphoto.com/ilford-optimum-permanance-wash-sequence-fb-papers/ . This is what I was referring to.

However, I suspect something is amiss here. I see no reason why toning should increase final wash time six-fold... I'm not going to argue with Ilford, but I'd certainly never wash my fiber-base prints for only five minutes. Anyone who does should really do tests for residual hypo to make sure they are really getting a good wash. For me, it's 10+ minutes in a wash aid and 60+ minutes final wash.

Doremus
 
I'm re-reading the mysteries of the vortex articles. About every 3 paragraphs he's mentioning, to judge the process test with HT-2. This is the key, IMHO, until you establish a reliable, repeatable process, check and double check.
My final wash is a exercise in OCD. I have a mag drive pump hooked up to a archival washer, once through, toning, hypo clearing agent, 10 -20 minute pre wash. Finally I start with my archival washer full of 68°F water, put the prints in the slots and turn on my pump, let if run for 15-20 minutes, then open the drain and I add a syphon so I can empty the washer in about a minute. Then, very gently I take a 5 gallon bucket of water, that I have previously filled, fill the washer back up in 20-30 seconds and repeat. Two of these cycles is adequate but I usually run 3 cycles. The pump gives much better flow than running with any reasonable tap water flow rate and THERE'S NO DAMN AIR BELLS on the surface of the paper.
I violate one cardinal rule, I use the film strength Kodak Rapid Fixer for 1 minute, but I use the hardener. I do this because I still use a Pako Drum dryer, I bought 3 brand new fabric belts for it from Pakor last year. Without hardener the prints stick to the belt. I have been using these dryers for 30 years never had a problem. But you have to make sure everything is clean going in and maintain the machines. If you do no trouble.
 
With toning the paper is exposed to ammonium thiosulfate in the toning step as well, hence longer wash time.
 
miha said:
With toning the paper is exposed to ammonium thiosulfate in the toning step as well
Click to expand...
This is true for selenium toner, but not most other toners. I think the reasons for longer wash times after toning are that (1) toning often takes several minutes or even longer, ie longer than fixing and (2) some toner components/chemicals may wash out less easily than fixer remnants. It all depends greatly in the toning approach taken and hence, the advice to wash longer after toning is eally a blanket statement that conservatively attempts to cover the most common approaches that may be taken in practice.
 
miha said:
With toning the paper is exposed to ammonium thiosulfate in the toning step as well, hence longer wash time.
Click to expand...

Of course. That lets the thiosulfates soak into the paper fibers more and therefore needs more washing time. Toning in selenium toners effectively negates the advantage of the Ilford short optimum permanence sequence just for that reason. Thanks for pointing this out.

One wonders why using strong fixer for a shorter time even has an advantage if selenium toning is in the processing sequence somewhere. Likely not. I'm glad I don't mess with it.

Doremus
 
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