Kodak HIE

[meillana]

just purchased 2 rolls (expired though - feb. 2009) of Kodak HIE high-speed infrared film.... being a real newbie to infrared photography, i have a few questions...
1. do i still need to use a filter? what type?
2. what iso do i set my camera to with this film?
3. being expired, what can i expect from the film? would it still perform well if not optimal?
any other precautions and/or recommendations would be appreciated.
thanks in advance.

 

[2F/2F]

There are many threads here with the info you need. The inside of the box also tells you basically what to do to use the film.

 

[David William White]

Start with this tech sheet: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f13/f13.pdf

Note specifically it says "Make trial or bracketing exposures over a five-stop range to determine the proper exposure for your application."

In other words, test, test, test. The results are very much dependent upon the subject matter and the lighting.

Quick answers:

1. Red, or dark red. Try a couple. Record what you did.
2. About 50 with deep red filter, BUT bracket one stop each side and record what you did.
3. Should be okay, especially if fridged. Keep in mind it is a grainy film. 5x7's yes, but 8x10 maybe not.

If you get anything cool (and you probably will), please post here and describe what you did.

Thanks in advance

 

[Jeff Kubach]

If you follow the above posts, you will love IR film. You will wish that you bought more Kodak HIE!

Jeff

 

[2F/2F]

Yes, I forgot to mention: The manufacturer's data sheet is the #1 thing to consult when using a film that is new to you.

 

[mooseontheloose]

just purchased 2 rolls (expired though - feb. 2009) of Kodak HIE high-speed infrared film.... being a real newbie to infrared photography, i have a few questions...
1. do i still need to use a filter? what type?
2. what iso do i set my camera to with this film?
3. being expired, what can i expect from the film? would it still perform well if not optimal?
any other precautions and/or recommendations would be appreciated.
thanks in advance.

If you only have two rolls of film, and don't plan on getting any more, then I wouldn't recommend testing -- you'll have just wasted for no reason. I'm down to my last five rolls (out of 25) and I am not an expert in using it, but based on my experience, here's what I would suggest:

1. Load/unload the film to/from your camera in total darkness. It is still possible for infrared light to penetrate the light trap and fog the beginning of the film. That being said, I have loaded/unloaded in subdued light with success, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

2. Shoot the film at 200 or 320 or 400 ISO. You need a filter, otherwise it will just come out as a grainy normal black and white film. Put a Red 25 filter on your lens and go with what the meter tells you. On a bright sunny day the exposure should be around f/11 and 1/125th shutter speed (give or take). For pictures that you really like, bracket +1 -1 (or more) to be safe. If you really want super white foliage then you should use a proper infrared filter, like a Hoya R72. However, if you don't currently own one, then it's a little expensive to buy just for two rolls of film. However, if you think that you will shoot infrared with some of the other infrared offerings out there (Efke, Rollei, Ilford), then you'll need this filter. You'll need a tripod to shoot with this filter, and as you can't see through it, will have to compose first, and then put the filter on second. I think it's about a 5 or 6 stop filter factor.

3. Shoot on sunny (or mostly sunny) days -- any time of day. You can get grainy atmospheric effects shooting HIE on cloudy, overcast, or foggy days, but this probably isn't the effect you're looking for, and it takes some experimentation to get good results.

4. HIE is a high speed film, and with a red filter is great for handheld shots. As a result, if you can, I would recommend shooting images that have people or animals or some kind of action in them -- you'll never be able to do that with the other infrared films, since the effective speeds with filters are generally too low to be handheld (ISO 1-25 usually). Some clouds in the sky will be more interesting than a totally black (that is, blue to your eye) sky. Still reflections in water (and foliage in water) also make great subjects.

5. If you don't have an infrared focus mark on your lens, try to keep your f/stop small (f/8, f/11, f/16) to ensure greater depth of field. Don't be afraid to try close-ups though.

6. Have fun -- this is a great film and I'm really disappointed that I discovered it so late!

 

[2F/2F]

"4. HIE is a high speed film, and with a red filter is great for handheld shots. As a result, if you can, I would recommend shooting images that have people or animals or some kind of action in them -- you'll never be able to do that with the other infrared films, since the effective speeds with filters are generally too low to be handheld (ISO 1-25 usually)."

It is the greatest benefit of HIE over other IR films, IMO...and the idea of "never again" is a very important one. There is only so much left, and it does not keep as well as most emulsions. Personally, I would not use HIE for anything BUT people or other moving objects at this point.

As far as the in-camera reflected metering method and metering through a filter, however, I would beg to differ. First of all, any reflected meter read directly, and especially an in-camera one, will in 90% of situations not give you as "ideal" of an exposure as you could get with other methods, such as incident metering or tonal placement using a reflected meter. This applies to all films, not just IR films. Secondly, metering through a filter, especially a darker one like a red filter, will make your meter more prone to error. Again, this applies to all films, not just IR films. Third, you can't meter for IR, as it is really dependent on the weather and the lighting (meaning whether you are shooting in shade, or in open sun, or with hot lamps, et cetera). You can only use visible light readings as a guide, and then factor in your own experience or others' experience to inform your exposure decisions. The "1/125 sec at f/11 on a bright and sunny day with a #25 filter in place" is ultimately the most useful bit of information to use, IMO. That is your "sunny 16" for this film. If you work through the exposure equivalencies, you will notice that this means you should rate the film at EI 50 when using an external light meter and a #25 filter...which, oddly enough is what the inside of the box sez to do!

 

[David William White]

Actually, I think with only two rolls you should use one as a test on one subject material, bracket and figure out what's what. If you don't do some kind of test or bracket your exposures, chances are you'll have 72 dreadfully unusable negatives. And you won't know what to do next time, and there probably won't be a next time. If you do some bracketing, then you'll get something and a bit of knowledge.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Actually, I think with only two rolls you should use one as a test on one subject material, bracket and figure out what's what. If you don't do some kind of test or bracket your exposures, chances are you'll have 72 dreadfully unusable negatives. And you won't know what to do next time, and there probably won't be a next time. If you do some bracketing, then you'll get something and a bit of knowledge.

By the time the first roll is shot, developed and printed, the conditions will have changed so much that little or no use can be derived. Why not shoot all seventy-two photographs of the same subject from the same position on a tripod? Then one will have learn a lot about nothing and have gained not enjoyment out of the last two rolls of HIE.

I plan to taking my only two rolls of HIE and carefully use it on bright sunny days on subjects that are scenic or beautiful. Some times I may bracket the exposure, but I plan on using and enjoying the two rolls and not play sub-junior-AA-wantabe with N-36, N-35, N-33, ... , N-1, N, N+1, ..., N+35, N+36.

Nothing personal, but wasting a complete roll by testing is a real WOMBAT!*


Steve



* WOMBAT= Waste Of Money, Brains, And Time.

 

[Tim Gray]

I've found that with my cameras (Canon 1V, Leica M), if I shoot through a red 25 filter, I can use the meter for the most part. Rate the film at ISO 400 and shoot away. When bracketing, for the most part, I didn't find that the -1 exposure was really useful in anyway. Do 0 and +1 and be done with it. A lot of times, the +1 looked better. So maybe rate it at 200 or split the difference and go 250-320.

For a R72 filters, I found that if I set my meter around 2500-3200, the same applied as above. I think ISO 2500 was the sweet spot.

Importantly, this was for MY cameras and the meters in them. You can play around with your camera some with the filter you have and an incident meter to see how everything compares.

 

[Vincent Brady]

Don't bother testing just bracket. Shoot at 400 asa + & - two thirds of a stop either side and use a 25A red filter. I have a lot of HIE shots on this site if you you want to check them out. I have always used the camera metering system to measure exposures. Of course as already mentioned load and unload in the dark.

 

[David William White]

Nothing personal, but wasting a complete roll by testing is a real WOMBAT

Pardon me, but it's not wasting. I said test by bracketing on your intended subject material. The first roll. Then you can sit back and look at the contact sheet and figure out what this film is capable of and approach the second roll with consideration of this gained knowledge.

If you go to all the trouble of sourcing HIE to play with, it would be beneficial to make some kind of proper job of it and say "this is what it does to foliage in sunlight with a #25 when rated at 100 but at 400 it looks like this".

If it's just for kicks to say you shot it, then do what you want, any wild-ass guess will do: there will be some density on the negative as long as the shutter opens. But I thought the OP was looking for something better than that.

 

[meillana]

thanks for all the tips. given these and the fact that its so rare to come upon this film, i would purchase all of the available rolls.
i do have an R72 filter which i practically havent used.
after i posted, i did read Kodak's info sheet on the HIE and yes..... the first thing that struck me is loading in total darkness. a google search also led to seeing a lot of people shots using said film.
i'm both excited and apprehensive at the moment. there's an obvious need to absorb all the technical considerations before using it. thanks again everyone!

 

[DaveOttawa]

thanks for all the tips...

... and there are even more here:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

pm me if you want the pdf mentioned in the thread.

Post some images when you've shot it - maybe some of the last HIE to be shot!

 

[2F/2F]

IMO, using a whole roll for a test, with only two rolls of a discontinued, but popular film, with tons of published information and experience about it available for free on the Internet and in libraries, and a free manufacturer's data sheet available, is a waste. Heck; you don't even need the data sheet. Just shoot in the sun and use the info on the inside of the box. Also, read up on what others say about the film and how the IR/visible ratios change in certain weather/lighting conditions, so you know a good starting poit for a number of stops to open up in non-sunny-16 conditons. Maybe bracket a stop over on every shot, or more in other lighting scenarios (such as a cloudy-bright day or in shade)...but don't blow a roll on "actual" testing unless you have a whole bunch of a film...especially when that film is discontinued.

There are enough people who have written enough about using this film, that if one does their research, they will get a good degree of success on their first roll. If the research is not done, I don't expect a good degree of success, with or without testing. So, IMO, read up and shoot away.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Not all cameras are 'safe' for IR film.
The Canon EOS 1V is safe for HIE film, as are the EOS 1 and rippingly beaut EOS 1N/RS/HS; there are others in the marques of course.
The EOS 5 body is not IR-safe, as it uses IR eyes to count the sprockets on the film as it is wound on and will fog the film. Note also the focus point must be shifted to the IR index marked on the lens. Curious to know it is "discontinued" when I saw it available here recently in Melbourne—might be old stock. Agree with using an R25 filter and shoot-by-meter with guesstimation: rather like pinhole! The deep IR filters are a bugger (apart from being humungously expensive); you're almost down to framing and composing the image with a pinhole camera (sans viewfinder!).

Finally, if not D&Ping yourself, make sure you ProLab the job and they know what to do. Load it, and blaze away cheerfully.

 

[David William White]

... So, IMO, read up and shoot away.

At the very least then, I hope you would agree that it would be prudent for the original poster to develop the first roll and assess the negatives before shooting the second roll. Yes?

 

[mooseontheloose]

At the very least then, I hope you would agree that it would be prudent for the original poster to develop the first roll and assess the negatives before shooting the second roll. Yes?

Yes, absolutely. And of course, recording every exposure along the way to see what ISO produces the infrared images the OP really likes, so that the next roll can be set for that.

99% of my HIE shots were just shot through a red filter and bracketing (sometimes) off the meter reading -- I've always had very good results, right from the first roll, which is why I suggested it in the first place. Our eyes and cameras can't see/read infrared light, so there's always going to be a little bit of guesswork or bracketing anyway, especially if one shoots in different light conditions.

 

[Steve Smith]

In other words, test, test, test. The results are very much dependent upon the subject matter and the lighting.

The problem is that with only two rolls to play with, it will all be taken up with testing with no film left for actual images.

It would be best to learn as much as possible from other people's techniques and try to apply that to your own way of working.


Steve.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Not all cameras are 'safe' for IR film.
The Canon EOS 1V is safe for HIE film, as are the EOS 1 and rippingly beaut EOS 1N/RS/HS; there are others in the marques of course.
The EOS 5 body is not IR-safe, as it uses IR eyes to count the sprockets on the film as it is wound on and will fog the film. Note also the focus point must be shifted to the IR index marked on the lens. Curious to know it is "discontinued" when I saw it available here recently in Melbourne—might be old stock. Agree with using an R25 filter and shoot-by-meter with guesstimation: rather like pinhole! The deep IR filters are a bugger (apart from being humungously expensive); you're almost down to framing and composing the image with a pinhole camera (sans viewfinder!).

Finally, if not D&Ping yourself, make sure you ProLab the job and they know what to do. Load it, and blaze away cheerfully.

This does not require testing!

Get out the users manual or download one and find out if it has an IR film counter or sensor. If it does the manual will tell you not to use it for IR film.

The idea of shooting test rolls of film when the OP only has two and they are irreplaceable is putting forth unconscionable bad information! Just look at the number of people who jumped in and agreed with me.

Steve

Steve

 

[David William White]

I only have the strength left to say once more that, along with Kokak, I was advocating test exposures on the intended subject material, not a friggen grey card or some other artificial test. You test with the intent of making an 'actual image'.

If I hadn't shot HIE before, I would get two rolls, one to see what it can do with my camera, my filter, and my lights. Get maybe 8 or 12 keepers (not bad!), then apply that knowledge to the second roll, and get close to 36 keepers. Oh, wait...that's exactly what I did!

Alternately, I could have 'gone and done my research' as 2F/2F so unhelpfully suggested, wading through the miasma of contradictory and irrelevant claims and pretty much waste a month. With an aperture ring, a contact sheet, a loupe, and an afternoon, I can pretty much know how this film behaves with my equipment and my subject matter. And discover other things like IR focus shift and my body's light leaks. Other important things.

Rachelle's reply made sense (except of course to omit what her ISO setting is to shoot so reliably off her meter), but her approach seems quite sensible.

Most objections to what I'm suggesting start with "but with only two rolls..." -- like more can't be had. If you don't approach this carefully (again, only as Kodak suggests) and if you don't track what you did, and you didn't get many decent negatives, then you will be unlikely to want more film. If you did approach this carefully, and did arrive at a working regime giving lovely results with your equipment and your subject material, "wasting" a roll to get there, you will definitely source more film. I guarantee it.

Lastly, if anyone still sees this as a waste, then I would still beg them to consider shooting a third of a roll, or maybe just even a clip test of a few frames. Just to ensure that enough exposure is given and the camera body is light tight.

 

[naaldvoerder]

i do have an R72 filter which i practically havent used.
QUOTE]

Don't use your R72 filter!!!!!, Use a R25 red filter!! Rate at 400 ASA if you use a in camera lightmeter (that measures through the lens!!) and bracket.

Jaap Jan

 

[2F/2F]

At the very least then, I hope you would agree that it would be prudent for the original poster to develop the first roll and assess the negatives before shooting the second roll. Yes?

Of course! That goes without saying. If you don't have the common sense to do that, you deserve to waste the film. I am just saying not to do an entire roll of the same shot over and over and over and......just for "testing". A most helpful suggestion, practically speaking. If the OP had ten rolls, I would feel differently. So, "CTFO", as my parents used to say to me.