Kodak HIE Question

kjsphoto · Oct 3, 2005

I just picked up 20 roll of this stuff for a project I am going to start working on.

My problem is I have no idea what to set the ISO to or how long to develop it. I will most likely use HC110 as I have a ton of it on hand and hate to buy more developer. I also have some Acufine and Rodinal.

What I am looking for is developments times and speed index to start shooting with. Also does this film have reprocicity failure? If so what are the adjustments?

Thanks,

Kev

smieglitz · Oct 3, 2005

Forget about metering it. Your meter's spectral sensitivity doesn't match the film response.

Try shooting it around 1/125 second at f/16 using a red filter (#25) on a sunny day. Bracket around that exposure, especially since you appear to be in the mountains and I'm much closer to sea level. Give it a lot more exposure if you are shooting in the shade. (Ditto for closeups IIRC. Check the data sheet to be sure.)

I Like HC-110 dilution B for 5.5 minutes at 68F for this film.

Remember to load and unload the camera in complete darkness with this film. Also, remember to compensate for the difference in focus with IR (although some people ignore the compensation with small apertures).

As far as reciprocity, dunno. It's a crap shoot anyways. Wise thing would be to run a test.

One final thing: some modern autowinding autofocus autoexposure dx-indexing cameras have an infrared sensor inside the film chamber. This results in fogging of the infrared film and qualifies for one of those most stupid engineering awards. Be sure your camera does not have such a feature when using infrared film.

Joe

titrisol · Oct 3, 2005

there is at least another recent thread on IR films....
I'd use marco pauck's recommendations to begin with (Google marco pauck infrared)

colrehogan · Oct 3, 2005

Here is another good website:

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/invisiblelight/index.html

He gets into ISO choices and what to expect under various lighting conditions.

kjsphoto · Oct 3, 2005

THank you for the linkan dgoogle advice. I will be using a hoya wratten filter. The one that is almost black.

Thanks,

Kev

donbga · Oct 3, 2005

smieglitz said:
Forget about metering it. Your meter's spectral sensitivity doesn't match the film response.

Try shooting it around 1/25 second at f/16 using a red filter on a sunny day. Bracket around that exposure, especially since you appear to be in the mountains and I'm much closer to sea level. Give it a lot more exposure if you are shooting in the shade. (Ditto for closeups IIRC. Check the data sheet to be sure.)

I Like HC-110 dilution B for 5.5 minutes at 68F for this film.

Remember to load and unload the camera in complete darkness with this film. Also, remember to compensate for the difference in focus with IR (although some people ignore the compensation with small apertures).

As far as reciprocity, dunno. It's a crap shoot anyways. Wise thing would be to run a test.

One final thing: some modern autowinding autofocus autoexposure dx-indexing cameras have an infrared sensor inside the film chamber. This results in fogging of the infrared film and qualifies for one of those most stupid engineering awards. Be sure your camera does not have such a feature when using infrared film.

Joe

I pretty much agree with Joe' recommendations for exposure. If you shoot enough of the film over time you will develop a sense of how different lighting situations will be rendered.

I prefer to develop in PMK, 12:30 min @ 77F. This yields easily printable negs with good contrast. The grain structure with HC110 or D-75 is more defined but it is easy for me to get blocked highlights with these developers.

Be careful where you purchase your film. While traveling in Charleston I purchased a few rolls that were age/heat fogged.

I also prefer a #29 red filter rather than a #25. You may want to try some of the orange filter too. When you are starting out try to be consistent with the filter usage and exposure to learn what works. 1/60 @ f/11 is my pivot point and then bracket in half stops.

Good luck,

Don Bryant

smieglitz · Oct 4, 2005

donbga said:
I pretty much agree with Joe' recommendations for exposure. If you shoot enough of the film over time you will develop a sense of how different lighting situations will be rendered...

Don Bryant

Unfortunately there was a typo in my original post which I've since edited. I meant to say:
Try shooting it around 1/125 second at f/16 using a red filter (#25) on a sunny day instead of the 1/25 second originally posted.

Sorry for any inconvenience or confusion this may have caused.

Joe

Ronald Moravec · Oct 4, 2005

I set my meter to 800 and meter a mid tone right thru an 092 B+W. Works with Leica rangefinders and reflexes and Pentax Digital spot meter and and older Cds cell meter. There are only so many meter cell manufactures in the world so everybody gets theirs from a few places.

I understand the meters are not designed for IR, but the film is not 800 either.

Without a meter and the 092, use 1/250 at 6.3 in full sun. Open one stop for a cloud in front of the sun.

Bobman · Oct 4, 2005

Has anyone try to do nude photography using the IR film and would the metering as the same as using normal film?

Mick Fagan · Oct 4, 2005

I did a short Infra-red course years ago on Kodak high speed Infra-red film. The instructor, a scientist who worked for Kodak at the time, was brilliant and had worked out a set of exposing parameters for this film.

His parameters were worked out for approximately 38º latitude, which is where we are located. I have used these settings ever since without using a meter at all, and found them to spot on. I don't bracket unless it's a really, really important shot.

red filter / Black filter

Clear sun summer 1/250 f/16 / 1/125 f/16

Clear sun winter 1/125 f/16 / 1/125 f/11

Cloudy bright 1/125 f/11 / 1/60 f/11

Overcast 1/60 f/11 / 1/30 f/11

I have used these settings from sea level up to about 1,000 metres.

Hold the black filter in your hands and look through to see how much Infra-red is being reflected, it works brilliantly and will tell you whether or not it's worth taking a shot or not.

Whilst a red filter is quite good with this film, you cannot see if Infra-red is abundent or not through a red filter, compared to a black filter.

By the way I use a Hoya R72.

Mick.

kjsphoto · Oct 4, 2005

Hello Mick,

What ISO and what developer?

Thanks,

Kev

Mick Fagan · Oct 5, 2005

Kevin there is no ISO for this film at all!

I shoot as per the previous post and don't deviate.

On the 2/2/97 a group of four photographers shot a roll of Kodak I/red each, in an afternoon. All of the film was exposed using the aforementioned parameters. I developed all of the film in my Jobo CPE2 (with lift).

I have read my notes and I used D76, neat. Freshly mixed from my own chemicals. The temperature was 22º C as this is the hottest time of the year this was the coldest I could get the bath down without resorting to ice.

Anyway D76 neat, 22º C for 8 minutes, With the first 15 seconds at high speed and the remainder of the developing at the low speed.

Using the Ilford temperature chart, I think this should be about 10 minutes @ 20º C. However as I got perfect negatives from four different photographers at that setting, I have developed this film that way ever since.

I have exposed something like 60 rolls of this film in the intervening years and currently did 14 rolls last summer. I have 7 rolls of this film in my fridge, which will be used up more than likely in late January to February when we go away for a couple of long weekends in the bush.

I think you should get extremely good negs, providing you have exposed correctly using thes times as a starting guide.

Mick.

kjsphoto · Oct 5, 2005

Ok, I dont get it.

If I neter a scene I hve to have an ISO to start with to take the image. Ther eis no 0 index in the camera. So what do you set it to and go with the times listed throughout this thread?

Thanks,

Kev

colrehogan · Oct 5, 2005

ISO 200 or 400 is a common starting point with the times you have seen here and you might want to do a test roll with bracketing. I have had my best results with this film using a red filter. You will need to add maybe a stop beyond what the meter would give with a red filter for the opaque filter.

See also: http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/invisiblelight/exposure.htm

nworth · Oct 5, 2005

donbga said:
...

I also prefer a #29 red filter rather than a #25. You may want to try some of the orange filter too. When you are starting out try to be consistent with the filter usage and exposure to learn what works. 1/60 @ f/11 is my pivot point and then bracket in half stops.

Good luck,

Don Bryant

One of the recommendations for HIE is to use a Minus Blue (No. 12) filter. Many prefer this, and it makes sense. All layers in the HIE tripack are sensitive to blue, so you need to get rid of it. But the individual layes are sensitized to green, red, and infrared. Using a red filter kills the green sensitive layer (which controls the blue color in the transparency). This is often the effect you want, but sometimes not. Experiment.

winger · Oct 5, 2005

I've used a few methods of picking my exposure and guessing has worked best. f11 at 1/125 with a red #25 was also very good. I set the meter at ISO 200 in case I want to try metering on a shadowy area, but expect grain. I've used Sprint developer 1:9 11.5 minutes at 68 F with good results and I've used Ilford's Ilfosol S 1:9 10 minutes at 68 F with good results. Bracket like H*ll. Do a couple of rolls as test ones - sun, shade, people, trees - and use those to figure out what you want to do. There's a very good book by Laurie someone (check Amazon). If you try any closeups, you'll want more depth of field to compensate for the focus being shifted (unless you have an older lens with a line for the IR focus). Just play a little.

Ole · Oct 5, 2005

nworth said:
One of the recommendations for HIE is to use a Minus Blue (No. 12) filter. Many prefer this, and it makes sense. All layers in the HIE tripack are sensitive to blue, so you need to get rid of it. But the individual layes are sensitized to green, red, and infrared. Using a red filter kills the green sensitive layer (which controls the blue color in the transparency). This is often the effect you want, but sometimes not. Experiment.

HIE is the black-and-white film, you're referring to the false-colour Ektachrome Infrared film.

Just so noone gets (more) confused...

Mick Fagan · Oct 10, 2005

Kev, sorry for the delay but I've been away on a long weekend trip.

I use the settings I outlined earlier, for exposure.

There is no ISO setting for this film. The reason as far as I know, is that there are no light meters that can measure Infrared in general photographic land.

Infrared is either there or not there, so no amount of metering will tell you if it is being reflected by plants or not. The safest way I know to find out if there is Infrared being reflected, is by looking through a black Infrared filter, in my case my Hoya R72.

I hope this helps, if it doesn't pm me.

Mick.

Soeren · Oct 10, 2005

Just developed my first roll last night.
11min in Rodinal 1:25, 21C @ 400 C (TTL setting) Bracketed +1 and +2.
I'd rather find a devtime for 1:50.
I find the 11 min being too much for 1:25 (very dense)
I shot using a #25 and a Heliopan 780 filter (no not at the same time) using a 20mm lens.
Under the shooting conditions here in DK I don't feel a need for +bracketing or the 780 filter.
I haven't studied the negs yet but what I saw revieled a couple of promissing ones.
Regards Søren

kaiyen · Oct 10, 2005

Soeren,
yeah - I use 9:00 with 1+25. 11 seems rather long.

I've been meaning to try 1+50 at some point, too. Guess I will wait until spring (the film is too expensive for me to try during non-traditional IR times of year).

Kevin - try not to think too much in terms of ISO and EI. Depending on the situation (noon, morning, lots of vegetation, etc) the EI you will want to use if you are metering will change. If you think about it, that's kind of the case with traditional black & white film, too. If you didn't fix yourself to one EI and change development, you'd have to change EI depending on the situation. If the contrast is high, you have to use a slower speed to get enough exposure for the shadows. If it's low contrast, you'd use a higher EI. The reason you can set one EI through testing is because you can actually meter visible light through your meter consistently. That is not the case with IR.

I still generally use EI settings, having said all that. High vegetation I rate it at 1250 (with the red 25 on), a mixture of vegetation and not at 800, and non-vegetation at 400. I then make adjustments depending on time of day and lighting conditions (cloudy, etc). It sounds complicated, and kind of is compared to the other ones mentioned, but it works for me, and perhaps the comfort of actually using the meter makes me feel more confident.

allan

allan

Kodak HIE Question

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