Kodak Flexicolor LORR+LU mixing

Richard Man · Aug 3, 2015

I read through the archive and I just want to make sure that I am doing the right thing. As I understand it, if I mix the Flexicolor Starter with the Dev/Repl, then I can use the mixture as one shot.

The question is, for example, Unique Photos sell them as 5L Dev/Repl and 1.2 Starter. Do I use them in that ratio, and get 6.2L solution in the end, or do I mix them at different ratio?

Please help. Thanks.

bvy · Aug 3, 2015

Not sure what you mean by "one shot"; how you mix it has no bearing on whether you decide to reuse it. If you mean "mix on demand," I don't know. I guess the proportions would be the same. I would suggest mixing all 6+ liters at once though. Evidence (and my own experience) suggests that the working solution keeps better than the stock component chemicals. Plus, you get consistency between rolls (i.e. you can eliminate some variables if things go wrong).

I store the working solution in a dozen or so 600ml bottles filled-to-capacity -- perfect for one roll of 120 or two of 35mm. My notes are at home, but the five liters of developer plus the starter yields just over six liters of working solution. The starter from Unique is more than you need, so store if for your next five liter developer purchase. The starter by itself seems to keep for a long time.

Richard Man · Aug 3, 2015

Thanks for the info. My question really is, do I mix the 5L Dev/repl, with the entire 1.2L Starter.

Sounds like it is. THANKS!

bvy · Aug 3, 2015

No! Don't add the starter undiluted. Read the mixing instructions. I'll follow up with details later.

RPC · Aug 3, 2015

IIRC, the Flexicolor Developer/Replenisher uses about 14ml of starter to make 1 liter of working solution developer. So doing the math the answer would be no, you have a lot more starter than you need. And you need to add water as well.

Edit: I do not use the LORR so your starter amount be be different than mine, but any difference should be slight. See Ed's post below.

EdSawyer · Aug 3, 2015

I had posted a similar answer as RPC on LFPF. There should be instructions on the replenisher package, and if not, on Kodak's website somewhere.

Richard Man · Aug 3, 2015

OK Thanks! I will buy the chemical now and sort out the proportion before they arrive

kb3lms · Aug 3, 2015

You want the Kodak CIS-49 document about mixing partial quantities. No need to mix the whole 5 liters at once. It'll only last a few weeks once mixed anyhow.

https://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis49/cis49.pdf

You can also get away without the starter if you like. All the starter does is make the developer act like solution that's had a few rolls run through it for process stabilization and consistent results. If you are a home user you will likely never know the difference.

Also make sure you seal up the bottle of Part C really well if you do not use all of it. You can also store it in a refrigerator to slow oxidation. Part C is the color developer and is the part that goes bad. If Part C should happen to go bad before you have used all of it, you can purchase CD-4 and make your own. The instructions are here somewhere. So if your Part C goes bad, do not throw out Parts A & B. Just make new C.

-- Jason

bvy · Aug 3, 2015

The 5 liter developer/replenisher kit will require around 1.55 liters of starter (200ml of starter concentrate plus water to make 1550ml). This will yield about 6.5 liters of working strength developer. But you should do the math to convince yourself.

Don't know if the picture helps. I've jotted down the amounts since I go "back to the bottle" with each 5L kit I buy.

bvy · Aug 3, 2015

kb3lms said:
You want the Kodak CIS-49 document about mixing partial quantities. No need to mix the whole 5 liters at once. It'll only last a few weeks once mixed anyhow.

It absolutely will not! I speak from experience. I've kept the stuff over a year and have gotten printable negatives with density as good as freshly mixed.

Richard Man · Aug 3, 2015

Thank you, all!!

Richard Man · Aug 3, 2015

5L is just 20 sheets of 4x5, so no problem of using it up. Actually, my mixing beaker is 3L so that's probably what I mix at a time, 2-3L.

kb3lms · Aug 3, 2015

It absolutely will not! I speak from experience. I've kept the stuff over a year and have gotten printable negatives with density as good as freshly mixed.

WOW! I've maybe gotten 6 weeks of life out of it but no more than that. How do you get it to last so long?

bvy · Aug 3, 2015

kb3lms said:
WOW! I've maybe gotten 6 weeks of life out of it but no more than that. How do you get it to last so long?

I'm doing nothing special that I know of. I use only distilled water and make sure everything that comes in contact with the chemicals is clean. Storage is key. I use 600ml plastic bottles filled to capacity and sealed, and kept in a dark cabinet. The Sobe drink bottles were great for this as they had thick walls, but they since got wise, and you can crush the new bottles with one hand.

The negative used here was made from C-41 developer that was almost 13 months old. What you're seeing is a scan of the paper print I made. It printed at 50M+50Y, and the density was good enough such that I didn't have to stop way down or do any dodging and burning. It's a Holga shot on Portra 400, print paper is Fuji Crystal Archive.

Richard Man · Aug 3, 2015

I use 750ml glass bottles...

Yea, the wine bottles I am a Californian....

RPC · Aug 4, 2015

I store my developers (Kodak, C-41 and RA-4) in glass jars filled to the top and sealed tightly and have had them last more than three years with no degradation. It really pays to mix all the chemistry at once if you store it this way.

Contrary to what was said earlier, do not leave out the starter. It is necessary with C-41 to make a proper working solution. It can be left out of Kodak's RA-RT RA-4 replenisher for use at room temperature with no harm.

bvy said:
The 5 liter developer/replenisher kit will require around 1.55 liters of starter (200ml of starter concentrate plus water to make 1550ml).

I think the way you should look at it is, the water is actually added to dilute the whole mix, not just the starter.

Richard Man · Sep 2, 2015

To put a closure to the thread, I purchased the Replenisher and Starter from Unique Photos. The Starter bottle has instructions on mixing. Basically, for each 1L of mixed developer, you add 30ml x 1.31 of starter and 207ml x 1.31 water.

I mixed 1/2 of the (5L) developer at a time since my mixing flask is only 3.5L and will not hold the entire 5+ liter mixture.

Richard Man · Sep 6, 2015

One "final" question please: from various threads, I understand that it takes 250ml of developer per sheet/roll and that's what I am using: 4 sheets in a Jobo tank with 1L of developer one shot. However, I also understand that the developer LORR has "twice the capacity" or something like that. Does that mean I can get away with more sheets per 1L?

Thank you.

Richard Man · Sep 7, 2015

WOW, I AM AN IDIOT. I forgot 4 sheets = 1 roll, not 1 sheet = 1 roll

Ha ha, pretty much wasted 8L of the stuff. Oh well

bvy · Sep 7, 2015

I think all C-41 developers are the same in terms of reuse. PE regularly posts a chart with compensation times for reuse based on the amount of film previously processed.

Terry Christian · Sep 7, 2015

Yes, C-41 chemicals are meant to be re-used, usually to the tune of 12 to 15 rolls (or equivalent) per liter. Keep in mind that you need enough volume to cover the film completely, which may vary depending on developing method.

EdSawyer · Sep 7, 2015

I get about 44-48 sheets of 4x5 per 5L of developer, using it one-shot. I could recycle it but don't bother. It could certainly do more, at least double that I'd think.

-Ed

Richard Man · Sep 7, 2015

The Flexicolor is relatively inexpensive (now that I remember 1L = 10 sheets, ha ha), there is really not a whole lot of point to reuse....

fdonadio · May 14, 2018

kb3lms said:
https://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/cis49/cis49.pdf

This link is not available anymore and Kodak Alaris didn't publish it on its website. It's available on the Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/2010122...professional/support/techPubs/cis49/cis49.pdf

And also on 125px:

https://125px.com/docs/techpubs/kodak/cis49-2009_12.pdf

lantau · May 15, 2018

This document seems a little outdated. It doesn't cover the 20L package of normal Flexicolor, only 5 gal. Also the package of modern 'normal' Flexicolor has instructions for the LORR Starter. This CIS49 has instructions for the non LORR starter, which is probably not available anymore.

My 20L kit has the volumes of concentrates printed on each bottle. That allows you calculate the volumes for any amount of replenisher you'd like to mix.

Kodak Flexicolor LORR+LU mixing

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