Kodak Flexicolor for C-41: Possibility of Using Non-RA Bleach Alongside RA Fixer

[Scott J.]

I'm planning to switch from smaller kits for developing C-41 film in my Jobo to the Kodak Flexicolor chemicals, primarily for the sake of having a cost-effective option for developing with separate bleach and fixer. I've exhaustively read through Kodak publications Z-131 and CIS-49 and feel I have a good grasp on how everything works (i.e., what chemicals to purchase, how to mix replenisher solutions, how to mix working solutions, etc.). My original plan had been to use the non-RA versions of the bleach and fixer (i.e., Flexicolor Bleach III Replenisher, Flexicolor Bleach Starter, and Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher), but I notice that the Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher (Cat. 600027) is particularly expensive to ship from Unique Photo in New Jersey (it alone adds around $50 to the shipping charge).

According to Z-131 (specifically, Table 3-5), Kodak states that it's also possible to use the RA ("rapid access") versions of the bleach and fixer in a Jobo with the necessary reductions in bleaching and fixing times (1:00 and 2:00, respectively, versus roughly 6:30 and 6:30 required for the non-RA versions). While the RA chemicals save considerably on shipping, I also notice that the least expensive combination would be to use the non-RA bleach (Cat. 6600258) with the RA fixer (Cat. 6600282). At this point, the cost difference is trivial, but as an academic question: Does using the non-RA bleach alongside the RA fixer cause any problems for the development? It doesn't seem that it should, provided one stays mindful of the processing times for each step, but I've not found any clarification in the Kodak literature. I was curious if anyone had direct experience and could respond.

 

[koraks]

Does using the non-RA bleach alongside the RA fixer cause any problems for the development?

I wouldn't say so, no. That is to say, I cannot think of a reason why it would be a problem.
Also the times for bleach & fix are non-critical as both steps run to completion, so longer times than those listed in the tech pub are perfectly ok (shorter times of course not).

 

[Scott J.]

Thanks, Koraks. I read where Kodak suggested (in Publication Z-100) that C-41RA bleach and fixer can be used in older C-41 minilab machines with bleach and fixing times of 4:30 to 6:30 for each step (which is comparable to the times most of us home developers are accustomed to), so there's clearly some flexibility there. If I go the route of using RA chemicals, these are likely the times I'll go with.

 

[koraks]

I use fuji RA chemistry and as a matter of convenience I use a time of 3m15s for all steps. The timer is set to it anyway...

 

[mohmad khatab]

I'm so sad . Reliance on an acid (RA4) kit is unacceptable (to me), the colors are never the same quality.
Why aren't you preparing a cheap bleach solution?
Why not prepare a Fixer yourself?
Why not try hard a little
- If you want my advice.
The Egyptian man’s advice is one that deserves to be much discussed.
Because we are a people who love savings and love cheap options.
Therefore, my advice to you will definitely be very useful.
First, if you have a good stock of developer (C41) this is great, you just have to prepare the original copper bleach,
Second, you can prepare a Fixer recipe for Austrian engineer Rudi.
You do not need a working solution, a Replenisher solution, etc.
- You will not need to buy a kit for a large sum and bear the shipping costs of the evil shipping companies (which I hate a lot and wish them death).
Trust me . It's easy. You should only be brave.
- If you want, I can give you those recipes.
But you must make the right decision for you.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

I'm so sad . Reliance on an acid (RA4) kit is unacceptable (to me), the colors are never the same quality.
Why aren't you preparing a cheap bleach solution?
Why not prepare a Fixer yourself?
Why not try hard a little
- If you want my advice.
The Egyptian man’s advice is one that deserves to be much discussed.
Because we are a people who love savings and love cheap options.
Therefore, my advice to you will definitely be very useful.
First, if you have a good stock of developer (C41) this is great, you just have to prepare the original copper bleach,
Second, you can prepare a Fixer recipe for Austrian engineer Rudi.
You do not need a working solution, a Replenisher solution, etc.
- You will not need to buy a kit for a large sum and bear the shipping costs of the evil shipping companies (which I hate a lot and wish them death).
Trust me . It's easy. You should only be brave.
- If you want, I can give you those recipes.
But you must make the right decision for you.

hes not using RA-4 chemistry, he’s using the RA versions on Kodak’s C-41 flexicolor chemistry.

 

[mohmad khatab]

hes not using RA-4 chemistry, he’s using the RA versions on Kodak’s C-41 flexicolor chemistry.

Thanks for the clarification ,
In any case, I think that it should be worth reducing costs by using cheap copper bleach and a traditional poor fixer.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

Thanks for the clarification ,
In any case, I think that it should be worth reducing costs by using cheap copper bleach and a traditional poor fixer.

no doubt, however, many people want to reduce costs while still using official chemistry. Kodak makes multiple versions of their flexicolor chemistry for this reason simply because cost is sometimes measured in time spent per processing batch.

 

[peter k.]

Heads up.. sent ya a PM

 

[mohmad khatab]

no doubt, however, many people want to reduce costs while still using official chemistry. Kodak makes multiple versions of their flexicolor chemistry for this reason simply because cost is sometimes measured in time spent per processing batch.

official chemistry.I object to this term.
- As long as you are looking for savings and feel very sad when paying the bill for the shipping company, you are not a rich man.
- Therefore, I invite you to show moral courage, avoid shame and join the convoy of poor people.
We are the poor, and we are not ashamed to admit it.
- The Great Man (PE) left us unaware of time.
- He supervised my experiences about (bleached copper) always oppressed, and he was very impressed with my results with bleaching of poor people.
- I asked him to return the consideration to (copper bleach), and he said that he needs to see the final test strips.
- I told him, I do not have test strips in Egypt.
- The dialogue stopped here.
I also did with Fixer until I was able to make a very strong solution and it has the ability to process a large number of rolls.
- There is no room here to talk about (official chemistry). We are here in the photrio community. - Anyone who comes here will be in order to obtain scientific information in order to increase the fun by saving money.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

official chemistry.I object to this term.
- As long as you are looking for savings and feel very sad when paying the bill for the shipping company, you are not a rich man.
- Therefore, I invite you to show moral courage, avoid shame and join the convoy of poor people.
We are the poor, and we are not ashamed to admit it.
- The Great Man (PE) left us unaware of time.
- He supervised my experiences about (bleached copper) always oppressed, and he was very impressed with my results with bleaching of poor people.
- I asked him to return the consideration to (copper bleach), and he said that he needs to see the final test strips.
- I told him, I do not have test strips in Egypt.
- The dialogue stopped here.
I also did with Fixer until I was able to make a very strong solution and it has the ability to process a large number of rolls.
- There is no room here to talk about (official chemistry). We are here in the photrio community. - Anyone who comes here will be in order to obtain scientific information in order to increase the fun by saving money.

there is room for everybody. “Official chemistry” equals “Kodak supplied chemistry”. There is nothing wrong with using the chemistry supplied by the company that invented the process. In fact, many times, it is the preferred method because you want consistent and reliable results. There is also nothing wrong with using chemistry that you formulated yourself, as long as you understand that it might not behave exactly the same way, but still provide acceptable results for you. This is not a moral dilemma, it’s personal preference.

 

[mohmad khatab]

there is room for everybody. “Official chemistry” equals “Kodak supplied chemistry”. There is nothing wrong with using the chemistry supplied by the company that invented the process. In fact, many times, it is the preferred method because you want consistent and reliable results. There is also nothing wrong with using chemistry that you formulated yourself, as long as you understand that it might not behave exactly the same way, but still provide acceptable results for you. This is not a moral dilemma, it’s personal preference.

Yes - it is really a personal choice ,,
I agree with you . It is true.
- But the chemistry that we prepare with our own hands, it does give results that come very close to the official chemistry.
This chemistry cannot behave in an unexpected way as long as I am in control, alert, and attentive to every detail, big and small. This is the role of this great forum, from which we learn how to be alert, alert, cautious.
Over time, we accumulate extensive experience that enables us to control the situation comfortably.
- Just as we have learned and benefited from this great forum, we have a feeling that we should try to help our brothers and colleagues in this forum. I think it is a moral imperative towards this wonderful society.