Kodak Flexicolor C-41 chemistry

How close do you live to NYC? B&H will gladly sell you bottles of SM bleach.

See what I mean? It's ridiculous...

The Trebla kit looks promising.

Anyone care to discuss the results they've got using it? Jerry?

It was sooooo much easier before they discontinued the main consumer bleach product, the one gallon Bleach III.

nworth said:

I've always used C-41 chemicals one-shot, so the replenishers don't make any sense for me. With very new films, the final rinse is supposed to work fine, but with anything more than a year or so old you will need C-41 stabilizer instead. (You can make it easily from formalin and Photoflo.) The developer starter is designed for startup of machine processing systems. You don't need it (or at least you didn't need it two years ago) for small batch processing. The stock solutions last an incredibly long time, although the working solutions deteriorate more quickly.

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For the developer, to make a tank solution, whether for one shot or replenished use, you need the replensisher, starter and water. Z131 has the appropriate amounts. If you use the replenesher solution without starter, your negs will look more contrasty visually, but the gamma will be off on all 3 colors, and you will be way off on your control strips (if you ran any, of course).

erie

My results with it have been fine and dandy. But I just started with it a couple of weeks ago, so I can't really remark on the keeping properties of the concentrates or anything like that. I've been mixing small quantities and using them single-shot (except the bleach). The reason I've been doing it that way is because I'm using Jobo tanks with rotation, and the Kodak Tech Pub warns against doing a replenishment system with rotary tube processing. I also don't shoot a large enough volume of film to justify trying a replenished system; I figure if I get 60 rolls through it before the concentrates go bad then I will break even on the cost. The real bonus to me is that there's no one in my city developing sheet film anymore. I'd have to mail it somewhere and pay something like $2-3 a sheet. Last weekend I did 28 sheets, so it's paying off fast.

For my processing, I've kind of mashed the Trebla times with the Kodak C41RA times (usually going with whichever is longer).

Also, one thing about the Filmpac data sheet is that it implies it makes 10 liters of developer, but it's actually 10 l of developer replenisher. When you make a working strength solution you dilute the replenisher another 25%, so you're actually getting 12.5 liters of developer when using it single-shot (I thought that was interesting, so I'm just throwing it out there).

There isn't a lot here on APUG about Trebla, but here's some bits and pieces:

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I've worked out the volumes of concentrates needed to make 1/3 liter working strength solutions. If people are interested I can post them.

Trebla is Albert spelled backwards.

I just thought that everyone should know that.

Jerry,
out of curiosity, when you say fine and dandy, do you mean sensiometrically correct or visually correct?

The C-41 Bleach I use is Flexicolor Bleach III NR Replenisher - 5L #1332634. The price I paid was something like $30. Three years ago I was in Los Angeles and a friend who owned a lab previously took me to his chemical supplier's warehouse similar to Chang's Photo Supply. I already forgot the name of the supplier. He had 4 bottles of this Bleach III NR Replenisher. This was also the one my friend's lab used. I bought all 4 bottles of it at about $30 each. The price may be a lot higher today. It is a 5 liter bottle of this chemical. I use it to replenish my C-41 bleach. I do not replenish exactly as I do not keep track of the number of rolls I bleached. Whenever I felt that it needed replenishment I would dump 1/4 to half of my working bleach (about 1 liter) then top up back to 1 liter with this Bleach III NR replenisher. There is no mixing and there is no starter needed. As of today I have not finished the first bottle yet. I will keep using it until it goes bad on me. But I was told that it will last many many years.

Kodak Flexicolor Final Rinse is for all Portra line of films and all films made since 2002 or 2003. Unless you are going to process long expired C-41 films such as VPS-3 you should use the Final Rinse.

The best source of Kodak chemicals are the regional wholesale suppliers who supply chemicals to pro labs and all independent color labs in the cities. In California there is one called Chang's Photo Supply in Los Angeles. I don't really like it that much. But they have a warehouse near me (25 miles) so I can order then go to pick up. They have everything I could possibly need. You can talk to your lab where you get your films done and ask them who their supplier in your city is. I believe they will tell you. The wholesale supplier will ask if you own a color lab. You can tell them that you own a Jobo Autolab (ATL) processor at work and you want to buy the chemical for the processor. That's good enough for them to consider you as a business buyer. I own a small business myself. I gave them my California sales permit number and I do own an ATL-2300. I ordered two bottles of C-41 Developer LORR Starter for less than $10 each recently from Chang's Photo Supply. There was no problem whatsoever for small orders like that. Since I have access this this wholesale supplier I don't ever need to order from Adoroma which really has very limited supply only.

Well, hope this stuff helps. Bottom line is C-41 with Kodak chemicals is really the way to go. It is easy and you will be rewarded with top quality negatives.

Correction. Actually the bleach I use is Flexicolor Bleach RA Replenisher -5L #8255549. This RA bleach is used by commercial labs in C-41RA process. It takes only 1 minute to bleach the negative. Well, I still bleach for 6 minutes. I think it can do the job in 3 minutes. It needs constant agitation.

Whatever are used by commercial labs they will more likely to have them in stock so they will be more likely available to you too. C-41RA process uses Flexicolor Developer Replenisher LORR for replenishing. This was why I got it too. They were available to me and cheap.

epatsellis said:

Jerry,
out of curiosity, when you say fine and dandy, do you mean sensiometrically correct or visually correct?

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I mean visually, I can't see any difference between my negs and commercially processed negs. I have no way to measure the film. But as I mention in thread #60008, I'm now getting a normal looking film base compared to my attempts with a blix mix (which was the Jobo Press Kit, incidentally).

Jerry Thirsty said:

...

Also, one thing about the Filmpac data sheet is that it implies it makes 10 liters of developer, but it's actually 10 l of developer replenisher. When you make a working strength solution you dilute the replenisher another 25%, so you're actually getting 12.5 liters of developer when using it single-shot (I thought that was interesting, so I'm just throwing it out there).

...

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Kodak usually lists the amounts to use for less than the full package somewhere on the packaging. If you can't find them there, they are on the Kodak website.

Hello all,

I have been reading this thread as I am preparing to buy my first batch of film for my newly purchased Jobo CPA2. I was wondering if any of you wouldn't mind looking at looking at what I'm going to buy and answering a few questions. Here's my shopping list so far:

Kodak Flexicolor (C-41) Developer Starter for Color Negative Film - 1 Quart
Kodak Flexicolor (C-41) Developer Replenisher for Color Negative Film - Makes 5 Gallons

Kodak Flexicolor RA (C-41RA) Fixer & Replenisher for Color Negative Film - Makes 10 Liters

There is a 5 liter package of fixer as well. But fixer doesn't really go bad correct? So I don't really have to worry about the amount I purchase.

I had a few questions about bleach. B&H has listed both Bleach III Replenisher and Regenerator. Is there any difference between these? Regenerator appears to be much cheaper than Replenisher.

Kodak Flexicolor (C-41) Bleach III Replenisher for Color Negative Film - Makes 5 Gallons
Kodak Flexicolor (C-41) Bleach III Regenerator for Color Negative Film - Regenerates 5 Gallons

There was also this bleach item that I was not sure if I should buy instead:

Kodak Flexicolor RA (C-41RA) Bleach Replenisher NR for Color Negative Film - Makes 5 Liters

Finally, I was having trouble finding stabilizer. Could anyone recommend what to use?

Is the shelf life of unmixed developer starter and replenisher about the same as all of the other elements? I know mixed developer only lasts for about 2 months but I didn't know if this applied to unmixed as well.

Thank you! I can't wait to finally use my Jobo but figuring out the chemicals has been a bit difficult.

b.cipolla said:

There is a 5 liter package of fixer as well. But fixer doesn't really go bad correct? So I don't really have to worry about the amount I purchase.

Finally, I was having trouble finding stabilizer. Could anyone recommend what to use?

Is the shelf life of unmixed developer starter and replenisher about the same as all of the other elements?

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Sorry I am not up on the different Kodak products to aid on the catoalog numbers.

The fixer ammonium thiosulfate can sulfur out after a time. Usually a few years. Who knows how old it was before it got to you. You will be re-ordering other things, so why stock up on a not totally sure thing.

I use a bit of formalin in water with some photo flow in a pinch. I know that is not the politically correct answer.

I also use E-6 kit final rinse for c-41, that I got from a photolab processing buddy. It never goes bad, and so extra bottles tended to pile up on him, and hence they came to me when he dropped e-6 services.

The developer starter should never really go bad; there are no organics in it that I know of.

The developer will likely come in three concentrates. One will hold the colour developing agent. Re pack that one in a glass bottle, and top it off with a gas blanket, and it will keep for more than a year in a coolish (20C basement is fine) dark place. You can mix the working solution of c-41 in one litre increments.

I believe Kodak lists 6 weeks for unused mixed developer kept in a full glass bottle.
A read of Kodak Z-131 while not always intersting, does provide a good background on the path you are about to follow. There are specific chapters for roller processors proceedures.

pakor.com has been a good source for me in the past for C-41 chemistry. They will ship everything, including the bleach (which places like B&H won't ship).

-Ed

Bleach replenisher is bleach - you need to buy that to start out. Bleach regenerator is (I believe) an oxidising agent that increases the bleach activity level once it gets a bit worn. Use of regenerator can therefore reduce the rate at which you need to throw out used bleach and replace it with fresh replenisher. You most likely want the Bleach III Replenisher, not the Bleach Replenisher NR.

Fixer does go bad but it takes 5+ years. Starts to smell bad and (if used) silver will start plating out onto the container it's stored in, but it still mostly works.

Agreed, regenerator is what you use to refresh the bleach after running it. I use up a 5L batch of bleach, saving it after processing with it, then use the regenerator to bring it back to life (so to speak) for another round of usage. Bleach is pretty long-lived.

-Ed

EdSawyer said:

Agreed, regenerator is what you use to refresh the bleach after running it. I use up a 5L batch of bleach, saving it after processing with it, then use the regenerator to bring it back to life (so to speak) for another round of usage. Bleach is pretty long-lived.

-Ed

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Do you use the bleach over and over this way? If so, is there any silver buildup requiring removal?

RPC

I've used the same 5L batch twice, regenerating after the first time. I will regenerate it again soon and use it for another 48 rolls soon. I haven't seen any silver buildup so far. PE would know more about that probably...

thanks
-Ed