Kodak Flexicolor bleach & fixer capacity

[srs5694]

For my first forays into C-41 processing, I used Paterson Photocolor bleach/fix. I wasn't entirely satisfied with it, though, so I've now acquired some Kodak Flexicolor bleach and fixer. Kodak's instructions, though, seem to assume use in commercial labs in a replenishment system. I don't do enough to make this worthwhile, so I'm wondering what the capacity of these items is (in 36-exposure 35mm rolls) when used without replenishment. Thanks for any information.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have used the Jobo recommendations and find that they work just fine.

There is some data on the Kodak web site on the C41 process and capacity of the various solutions as well, for deep tank and drum processes.

PE

 

[srs5694]

I have used the Jobo recommendations and find that they work just fine.

And what are those recommendations? I don't own a Jobo machine. I'm doing my development in a stainless steel manual tank.

There is some data on the Kodak web site on the C41 process and capacity of the various solutions as well, for deep tank and drum processes.

I've searched the Web site and PDFs Kodak has made available. The only recommendations I see relate to the capacity of the developer. There's no word on the capacity of the bleach or fixer. Maybe they've hidden it somewhere I've not searched. If so, please either summarize or give me a URL, since I've not been able to find it myself.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Go here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/Zmanuals/z131_03.pdf

and look at table 3.3 for bleach capacity. The jobo manual has 3 pages of recommendations, so if you tell me the size of film and quantity, I can abstract the data you need. I have my Jobo manual here ready to go.

PE

 

[srs5694]

Go here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/Zmanuals/z131_03.pdf

and look at table 3.3 for bleach capacity.

The in-text description of the table explicitly states that it gives the capacity for the developer; there's no mention of bleach or fixer capacity. If you're saying that the bleach and fixer capacities are the same as the developer capacity, then of course this table is helpful -- but poorly presented in the PDF.

The jobo manual has 3 pages of recommendations, so if you tell me the size of film and quantity, I can abstract the data you need. I have my Jobo manual here ready to go.

I normally shoot 24- or 36-exposure rolls of 35mm film and develop in a stainless steel tank that takes 250ml of solution per roll (but when I re-use solutions, I generally start with 300ml so that any loss through leakage won't cause problems). I seldom develop more than one roll at a time.

 

[MattKing]

The in-text description of the table explicitly states that it gives the capacity for the developer; there's no mention of bleach or fixer capacity. If you're saying that the bleach and fixer capacities are the same as the developer capacity, then of course this table is helpful -- but poorly presented in the PDF.

At the very bottom of the table that indicates developer capacity, in small print, there is a statement that the "capacity for the other solutions (bleach, fixer and stabilizer) is twice the number of rolls or sheets given for the developer".

 

[srs5694]

At the very bottom of the table that indicates developer capacity, in small print, there is a statement that the "capacity for the other solutions (bleach, fixer and stabilizer) is twice the number of rolls or sheets given for the developer".

Ah, OK! I completely missed that footnote. This helps a lot. Thanks to you both.

 

[panastasia]

... "capacity for the other solutions (bleach, fixer and stabilizer) is twice the number of rolls or sheets given for the developer".

This is what I experienced, also. I no longer develop color films but I can remember getting consistent results as long as I didn't exceed 4 rolls/500ml of developer.

 

[mtjade2007]

I have used the Jobo recommendations and find that they work just fine.

There is some data on the Kodak web site on the C41 process and capacity of the various solutions as well, for deep tank and drum processes.

PE

PE, I have a Jobo instruction manual for a ATL-22/23/24/2500 processor. It has only one page of capacity information. It says with Jobo 1540 tank use 470 ml for 4 rolls of 135, 4 rolls of 120 or 2 rolls of 220. I found this very different from Kodak's capacity info provided in Z-131 table 3-3.

What Jobo recommendations are you referring to? What Jobo document is it that you have?

 

[Nick Zentena]

I assume he is referring to the Kodak recommendations for Jobo use. Not the Jobo provided info. Download the Kodak Z-131 document.

The numbers you posted just seem the tank mins and not really the chemical requirements. Don't use less chemical then the chemical company suggests.

 

[pentaxuser]

Useful link PE The Jobo 35mm tank only uses 140ml( call it 150ml for easier calculation) for rotary agitation. Kodak says 1 litre of Flexicolor dev does 4 rolls of 36 frame 35m film of Potra 160NC just as an example, per litre. So 4 films if you were to hand agitate with a tank using 250mls but as rotary agitation uses only 150mls can I take it that on a use once and dump basis 1 litre would process 6 films with a bit left over or 7 films if you stuck to Jobo's capacity of 140mls?

Likewise double this for bleach?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Nick Zentena]

No the Kodak requirements win out. Always use what the chemical company suggests unless the Jobo requirement is higher. Or in other words use the higher amount.

 

[pentaxuser]

OK but it seems strange that other companies chems can use the Jobo amounts of 140mls but Kodak requires that 250mls is the min. So Kodak chems need to be nearly twice as cheap to make them the same overall cost. Maybe the active ingredients in Kodak dev need 250 mls min to develop properly but it is difficult to imagine that this would apply to say bleach as well.

I wonder what's different about Kodak chems from say Tetenal, Champion and others that enables the others to use 140mls? Is Kodak chems weaker? Could it simply be that Kodak have assumed that 250 mls is the minimum you'd need for a tank. It would be right if hand agitation was used.

pentaxuser

 

[Photo Engineer]

I use the Jobo recommendations for C-41.

They work.

PE

 

[schlger]

The Kodak Flexicolor requirements for minimal developer amount per film on table 3-3 seems very inconsistent in my eyes:

4x 135-36 per litre = 2450 cm2
3x 120 p. l. = 1494 cm2
1x 220 p. l. = 996 cm2
10x 4x5 p.l. = 1250 cm2
3x 8x10 p.l. = 1547 cm2

I intend to use Flexicolor developer in a Jobo Autolab with the 3010, 3006, 3005 and 2500 system drums. Till now I used this machine for E-6 and B&W developement and the required E-6 chemistry volumes were much smaller (e.g. 330ml for 10 4x5).

What is your c-41 experience, how many sq. cms can I develope in one litre of developer securely and consistently?

In the same datasheet, Kodak recommends for rotation developement, not to replinish bleach and fix but to use it up to its max. capacity. Do you know why?

Thanks a lot!
Gerhard