KODAK ELITE Fine-Art Paper

donbga · Aug 26, 2006

Does anyone know if Kodak Elite FA can be used safely with a Thompson Amber safelight?

The Kodak product specs suggest that it may be used with an Amber OC safelight (15 watt).

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/g19/g19.jhtml

Thanks,

Sparky · Aug 26, 2006

Yes, of course it can. It can be used with white light too. It just depends on the level of illumination..! (not trying to be smart-ass here, a safelight can fog paper very easily, too!). Some papers are ever-so-slightly more sensitive to other parts of the spectrum - it's a subtle art.

Sparky · Aug 26, 2006

Yes, of course it can. It can be used with white light too. It just depends on the level of illumination..! (not trying to be smart-ass here, a safelight can fog paper very easily, too!). Some papers are ever-so-slightly more sensitive to other parts of the spectrum - it's a subtle art. I'm not trying to be punny when I say this - but there's no black-and-white answer to your question.

donbga · Aug 27, 2006

Sparky said:
Yes, of course it can. It can be used with white light too. It just depends on the level of illumination..! (not trying to be smart-ass here, a safelight can fog paper very easily, too!). Some papers are ever-so-slightly more sensitive to other parts of the spectrum - it's a subtle art. I'm not trying to be punny when I say this - but there's no black-and-white answer to your question.

Sparky,

I'll rephrase my question. Can a Thomas safelight be used safely with the amber filters while working with Kodak Elite FA?

I'm quite aware that different papers have different spectral sensitivities, the consqunce of that being possible safe light fog with different safelight filters and light sources.

I just thought someone might have a black and white answer based on their experience with Elite FA and the Thomas safelight.

Just for the record Sparky, I'm keeping count.

PhotoJim · Aug 27, 2006

I honestly have no idea - I'm not at all familiar with your safelight - but underdoing some safelight testing would probably be faster than waiting for us to give you an intelligent answer. Honestly, it's wise to do it anyway because just because someone from here has good success with that combination, you might not. If their safelight were further from the paper, that could make all the difference.

My guess, and it's just a guess: you'll be fine. But pull out a sheet in the pitch dark, cut it into four, and run tests on it. If you need help devising tests, let me know but generally you want to give the paper exposure to a medium grey tone and then test for fogging. Fogging tends to affect exposed image more than unexposed image.

Jim

Monophoto · Aug 27, 2006

Don -

Do you mean "Thomas" sodium safelight?

df cardwell · Aug 27, 2006

Yes. Just mind the brightness: start by adjusting the level with the vanes
for a comfy brughtness.

Where's you get the Elite, you dog...

donbga · Aug 27, 2006

PhotoJim said:
I honestly have no idea - I'm not at all familiar with your safelight - but underdoing some safelight testing would probably be faster than waiting for us to give you an intelligent answer. Honestly, it's wise to do it anyway because just because someone from here has good success with that combination, you might not. If there safelight were further from the paper, that could make all the difference.

My guess, and it's just a guess: you'll be fine. But pull out a sheet in the pitch dark, cut it into four, and run tests on it. If you need help devising tests, let me know but generally you want to give the paper exposure to a medium grey tone and then test for fogging. Fogging tends to affect exposed image more than unexposed image.

Jim

Thanks Jim,

I do know how to perform the safelight fog test, unfortunately not all B&W printers understand the correct way to make the test. I just thought I would ask, since the last time I printed with Elite I used different safelights.

donbga · Aug 27, 2006

Monophoto said:
Don -

Do you mean "Thomas" sodium safelight?

Yes. Sorry about the mis-spelling.

donbga · Aug 27, 2006

df cardwell said:
Yes. Just mind the brightness: start by adjusting the level with the vanes
for a comfy brughtness.

Where's you get the Elite, you dog...

I have my sources.

Seriously though, I really liked this paper and about the time I got used to it Kodak discontinued it. An old friend gave me several packets of 16x20 recently after cleaning out his freezer. When I used it before I didn't have a Thomas safelight, thus my question.

Jon Shiu · Aug 27, 2006

It also depends on how old the inner filters are as they fade and crack. In a school darkroom I have done the safelight test and gotten bad fogging. If you close the vanes you won't get fogging, but it is quite dim.

Jon

Sparky · Aug 27, 2006

donbga said:
Sparky,

I'll rephrase my question. Can a Thomas safelight be used safely with the amber filters while working with Kodak Elite FA?

I'm quite aware that different papers have different spectral sensitivities, the consqunce of that being possible safe light fog with different safelight filters and light sources.

I just thought someone might have a black and white answer based on their experience with Elite FA and the Thomas safelight.

Just for the record Sparky, I'm keeping count.

Hi Don - what I was trying to say was simply that ALL safelights will fog all papers when placed close enough, and that ALL safelights will be SAFE for all papers when the exposure is minimized. There's simply no cut-and-dried answer to your question. I'd recommend leaving out a sample exposed to the light for various amounts of time, up to, say 3 hours, as a test strip of sorts, though on separate pieces. This is the only way you can really know for your light, under specific circumstances. Sorry - there's no easy way out of it. It's something that should be known for EVERY darkroom.

I used Elite for a spell (maybe a year) under amber filtered fluorescents, and it was generally fine. There was no fogging that I know of.

Though - interestingly, as an aside, I think that safelight fogging can be incredibly subtle and hard to detect. I used to use Galerie in a friend's darkroom a lot. Never had any fogging 'issues'. They then got rid of their processing area with an Ilford Ciba processor, so I was forced to use drums to process my B&W. Surprisingly, my prints suddenly became much better. The highlights 'sparkled' much more. It wasn't something I could really put my finger on... but the prints seemed to 'sing' a lot more... I try to absolutely avoid safelights under all possible circumstances now.

donbga · Aug 28, 2006

Sparky said:
Hi Don - what I was trying to say was simply that ALL safelights will fog all papers when placed close enough, and that ALL safelights will be SAFE for all papers when the exposure is minimized. There's simply no cut-and-dried answer to your question. I'd recommend leaving out a sample exposed to the light for various amounts of time, up to, say 3 hours, as a test strip of sorts, though on separate pieces. This is the only way you can really know for your light, under specific circumstances. Sorry - there's no easy way out of it. It's something that should be known for EVERY darkroom.

I used Elite for a spell (maybe a year) under amber filtered fluorescents, and it was generally fine. There was no fogging that I know of.

Though - interestingly, as an aside, I think that safelight fogging can be incredibly subtle and hard to detect. I used to use Galerie in a friend's darkroom a lot. Never had any fogging 'issues'. They then got rid of their processing area with an Ilford Ciba processor, so I was forced to use drums to process my B&W. Surprisingly, my prints suddenly became much better. The highlights 'sparkled' much more. It wasn't something I could really put my finger on... but the prints seemed to 'sing' a lot more... I try to absolutely avoid safelights under all possible circumstances now.

I agree safelight fog can be subtle or very gross. I just wanted to avoid an issue of having the paper instantly fogged having never tested or used Elite with the Thomas unit.

Thanks for the input.

df cardwell · Aug 28, 2006

DON

When Elite was fresh ( note implied warning about old paper and fog ! )
I could use my Thomas safelights at a very bright level for long development times.

Other papers ( MG, for instance ) have never allowed the brightness I was able to use for Elite. Agfa Classic was very good as well.

The Thomas does require a little sense, however. It is VERY bright, and if you position it to illuminate the room without shining directly on the paper, that is ideal.

You should have no trouble. The ELITE, though, has been out of date long enough you can expect some trouble.... but I hope you have none.

Sparky · Aug 28, 2006

df cardwell said:
The Thomas does require a little sense, however. It is VERY bright, and if you position it to illuminate the room without shining directly on the paper, that is ideal.

I agree - and, to be PRACTICAL - in case it wasn't implicit in my post - I'd keep the flaps closed on that puppy and keep it a MINIMUM of 10 ft. away...! (apologies if that's what you were looking for before!).

Donald Miller · Aug 28, 2006

I used Elite with OC filters. No problems.

KODAK ELITE Fine-Art Paper

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