Kodak Ektar base color question

lensman_nh · Nov 27, 2019

I have just processed a couple of rolls of Ektar 100. One was 35mm and the other was 120.

They were processed separately, but in the same batch of Kodak C-14 Ektacolor, used one shot, so cross contamination or exhaustion should ruled out.

On the lightbox, the 35mm base is very bright orange, but the 120 is a much more dull orange, very dull infact. I know the base materials are different, but I would have expected then to have a similar base color on the unexposed leaders. Comparing to various other color films (Fuji and Kodak in various types and formats) their is some variation in base color, but the difference between the 2 formats of Ektar seems extreme.

I haven't tried printing it yet as it's fresh off the reel, and it's the holiday is tomorrow so it will be the weekend before I get a chance. This will probably require a change in filtration between the 35mm and 120 to compensate.

I'm curious to see if anyone else has noticed this, or do I have an indicator off an underlying problem?

Thanks

J.

MattKing · Nov 27, 2019

The 135 film incorporates an anti-halation layer (before processing) and is on a substrate that is different in thickness - 0.10mm for the 120, and 0.13mm for 135.
From what I understand, the two different formats and substrates require that differences be engineered in.
So a difference in visual base colour doesn't surprise me.

Photo Engineer · Nov 27, 2019

You say they are still wet? Wait until they are dry and then post some pictures of the original negative and positives.

PS: Are you a Grey Lensman or a Second Stage Lensman.

PE

lensman_nh · Nov 28, 2019

PE,

They were dry when I posted. This is the difference on the light box. I don't have a scanner at the moment, as my last one didn't survive being knocked off m desk.

I can't see any signs of under-bleaching of under-fixing. There seems to be a comparable range of dyes in both sets of negatives.

I'm beginning to think that this is just the way it as.

John Galt · Nov 28, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
PS: Are you a Grey Lensman or a Second Stage Lensman.

PE

Good to see another E.E. Doc Smith "Lensman" fan here.

brbo · Nov 28, 2019

That 120 Ektar doesn't look right.

edit: found 35mm and 120 I developed at home (developed probably months or years apart and most probably not even with the same brand of C-41 chems)

Photo Engineer · Nov 28, 2019

They look the same to me. Where they overlap, they are almost identical in mask color. It may be the process used to copy these for upload, but both of them look odd to me in overall color.

PE

Photo Engineer · Nov 28, 2019

John Galt said:
Good to see another E.E. Doc Smith "Lensman" fan here.

First edition hard cover copies, plus the Skylark series in paperback and in first edition magazine versions.

PE

AgX · Nov 28, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
They look the same to me. Where they overlap, they are almost identical in mask color. It may be the process used to copy these for upload, but both of them look odd to me in overall color.

,
The odd couple so to say is shown in post #4 not #6.

John Galt · Nov 28, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
First edition hard cover copies, plus the Skylark series in paperback and in first edition magazine versions.

PE

Wow . . good stuff PE . . I am an Andre Norton, Tolkien and Robert Heinlein collector . . several 1st Edition hardcovers some are signed and all of them in paperback including the original Ace unauthorized Hobbit and LOTR Trilogy . . . I loved scifi as a kid.

lensman_nh · Nov 28, 2019

brbo said:
That 120 Ektar doesn't look right.

edit: found 35mm and 120 I developed at home (developed probably months or years apart and most probably not even with the same brand of C-41 chems)

That's what I was expecting. I'm guessing my Ektar 120 gone off, or the chemistry somehow went kaput over a couple of days. To be fair, the 120 was not stored in the best of conditions, and is a little past expiry, but not by much. I've used much older Fujicolor with no issues other than a bit of a change on my filter pack for RA-4 printing.

I guess another test this weekend to see if it's the film or the chemistry is in order. I'll be surprised if it is the chemistry as it is fresh Flexicolor used one shot, and this is the first 1L batch I've mixed with no issues so far (4 films).

Thanks.

J.

DREW WILEY · Nov 28, 2019

There can be slight differences in the orange with respect to a tiny bit of magenta influence, but any sort of yellowish bronze is way off.

Photo Engineer · Nov 28, 2019

My apologies to all. Yes, the "bad" film looks "bad". To me, it looks like overall fog by a red safelight. Another alternative might be some sort of keeping problem.

PE

Photo Engineer · Nov 28, 2019

John Galt said:
Wow . . good stuff PE . . I am an Andre Norton, Tolkien and Robert Heinlein collector . . several 1st Edition hardcovers some are signed and all of them in paperback including the original Ace unauthorized Hobbit and LOTR Trilogy . . . I loved scifi as a kid.

I have some Tolkien poetry from the late '30s or early '40s as well as many autographs. I met Jerry Pournelle once and got his.

I have a rather large collection that goes back to the '40s, including an original Buck Rogers by Rick Calkins and Dick Yeager.

Maybe we should move this to a devoted thread or to the inbox?

PE

lensman_nh · Nov 29, 2019

Photo Engineer said:
My apologies to all. Yes, the "bad" film looks "bad". To me, it looks like overall fog by a red safelight. Another alternative might be some sort of keeping problem.

PE

Yup, it's bad, and it has to be a keeping problem. It went from sealed foil to camera to tank, and I've been doing this long enough to know no safelights for film!

I re-ran a test last night by running round the house with a 35mm with Fujicolor and my MF with Ektar. Same result. Fuji was nice and orange, Ektar bronze.

As I mentioned, it is 9 months out of date and it wasn't stored well at all, but I've used well expired Fujicolor that was older and stored alongside it with few issues. That not a comment on Ektar in general BTW, expired is expired, and I will have an order going in for some more Ektar very shortly. I only had 4 rolls left from that batch, so it's not a huge loss.

My big takeaway from this is to be more careful storing film I'm not going to use right away. I've become kind of used to how robust modern films are in general to less than wonderful storage, and I can't avoid buying film that's close to expired and cheap. I picked up that habit when I was younger and money was much tighter. I think the time has come to break that habit and just get fresh stocks. Life's too short to waste time shooting marginal film.

J.

Kodak Ektar base color question

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