Kodak DK-50. (Homemade.)

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 27, 2005

I have recently ordered some chemicals along with a set of electronic scales from Rayco Photographic Ltd, so that I can make Kodak D-72 print developer from scratch, I also ordered 100 grams of Sodium Metaborate, as I wish to make Kodak DK-50 for reasons of personal curiosity.
I would like to try this developer diluted 1+1 with Ilford FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus films, but I cant find any times for these on the Digital Truth Website.
I was wondering if anyone has tried these films with DK-50 and would suggest a starting point time for them?

Don Mills · Aug 27, 2005

You may find DK-50 excessively contrasty and grainy for 35mm. Since you want to make your own developers, I would highly recommend pyrocat.

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 27, 2005

Keith Tapscott. said:
I have recently ordered some chemicals along with a set of electronic scales from Rayco Photographic Ltd, so that I can make Kodak D-72 print developer from scratch, I also ordered 100 grams of Sodium Metaborate, as I wish to make Kodak DK-50 for reasons of personal curiosity.
I would like to try this developer diluted 1+1 with Ilford FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus films, but I cant find any times for these on the Digital Truth Website.
I was wondering if anyone has tried these films with DK-50 and would suggest a starting point time for them?

Yes, take a look at this APUG thread on DK-50 for some general starting points. Pulverel gives 12 minutes at 20C for Tri-X and that should work as a starting point for HP5.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Since you are mixing your own, I would also recommend Pyrocat-HD for these two films.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 27, 2005

Don Mills said:
You may find DK-50 excessively contrasty and grainy for 35mm. Since you want to make your own developers, I would highly recommend pyrocat.

If the negatives yield prints that are too contrasty, then the developing time is too long.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 27, 2005

Tom Hoskinson said:
Yes, take a look at this APUG thread on DK-50 for some general starting points. Pulverel gives 12 minutes at 20C for Tri-X and that should work as a starting point for HP5.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Thanks Tom,
I downloaded some info from the Kodak website, the technical data for their Tri-X films are: Tri-X 400 film (400TX) is 6 minutes in DK-50 diluted 1+1 at 20C/68F for small tank and Tri-X 320 Professional (320TXP) is 8 minutes for the roll film in a rotary discard processor. I couldn`t find times for other Kodak films for use with DK-50.
Maybe I should start with around 7 or 8 minutes for the Ilford films and tweak them from there.
The chemicals should (hopefully) arrive next week.

MikeS · Aug 27, 2005

7 or 8 minutes is a good starting point with DK-50. As you're mixing yourself, you can also try DK-60a which is very similar, and it's recommended times are 7 minutes for most films (according to the PLI). DK-50 or DK-60a is a good developer, often overlooked because it tends to have larger (but sharper) grain than D-76.

-Mike

MikeS · Aug 27, 2005

I should add that I think I have a lifetime supply of DK-50, between my homemade brew, and prepackaged Kodak packages I have something like 200 gallons worth of it! (so I better like it!)

-Mike

fparnold · Aug 27, 2005

In High School we had a lifetime supply of DK-50, in cans, donated from our local industry. It was beautiful used at 1:1 with HP5, especially if the HP5 was shot on an overcast day. Grainy for 35mm, but a nice, tight, grain with excellent acutance. I found a negative recently where you can still see the weave of denim and the impressed lettering on a full-length portrait.

Unfortunately, I don't remember developing times, except that they were pretty short. (forgive me, but I just had my 20th HS reunion, so my DK50 experience is even older)

Mike-D · Aug 27, 2005

D-61c

I fooled around for a while with a developer I called D-61c. Basically it was D-61a with Ascorbic acid (vitamin c powder from the health food store) in place of hydroquinone. I increased the sodium carbonate (Arm and Hammer washing soda) slightly to counteract the acidity.

It worked fine. Contrast was fine with the right dilution (1:4 - 1:10) and time. Grain was bigger and sharper than D-76. Worked fine with Efke 25. Foma 400 was...grainy. Tri-X and Foma 200 were better.

In the end it was a fun experiment, but not for everyday 35mm use.

Mike D

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 28, 2005

MikeS said:
7 or 8 minutes is a good starting point with DK-50. As you're mixing yourself, you can also try DK-60a which is very similar, and it's recommended times are 7 minutes for most films (according to the PLI). DK-50 or DK-60a is a good developer, often overlooked because it tends to have larger (but sharper) grain than D-76.

-Mike

Thanks Mike,
The idea of making my own chemicals is something I have been considering for a while now. The main reason was because I have had some of the liquid print developers go off fairly quickly after the containers had been opened, my own fault really, because I should have decanted the remainder into glass bottles. I therefore decided to make my own MQ print developers and contacted Rayco Photographic Ltd who are now selling raw chemicals again after being bought by a new proprietor.
When ordering a set of electronic scales, Calgon, Metol, Sulphite, Hydroquinone, Carbonate and Pot Brom, I decided to get some Borax and Metaborate for the sake of an extra £4.00, so that I could experiment with maybe DK-50 or Adox MQ Borax.
My regular film developer is D-76 which I buy in 1 US Gallon size packs for £3.93, so therefore not really worth the bother of making from scratch.
I can then make print developers fresh, as and when I need them.

jim appleyard · Aug 28, 2005

Keith Tapscott. said:
My regular film developer is D-76 which I buy in 1 US Gallon size packs for £3.93, so therefore not really worth the bother of making from scratch.
I can then make print developers fresh, as and when I need them.

Ah, but if you wish to make your D-76 from scratch, it would cost you considerably less. Plus, you can make all the variations of D-76 that you wish.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 28, 2005

jim appleyard said:
Ah, but if you wish to make your D-76 from scratch, it would cost you considerably less. Plus, you can make all the variations of D-76 that you wish.

Good point Jim, trouble is, there are so many D-76 derivatives.

jim appleyard · Aug 28, 2005

Yes, there are many. My point, FWIW, and I guess I should have stated this, is to pick a D-76 varient that will tweak your film to suit your needs; to give it that little extra something.

I've been mixing my own for about 3 years. I call it playing "Evil Scientist". It's great fun and quite a money saver.

Have fun, J

df cardwell · Aug 28, 2005

Good Old DK-50 !

For ages it was the standard sheet developer for Kodak, then replaced by HC-110.
Dilution A for HC-110 is often similar to DK-50 straight. Dilution B often is the same as DK-50 1:1. A good starting point for development time would be HC-110 b.

It is a wonderful portrait developer, giving nicely compressed shadows, splendid midtoned, and sparkling highlights for accents. Be warned this is desirable for portraiture, and could be disastrous for some landscape work.

In the studio I first worked, we used DK-50 most of the year. In the summer months, we switched to D-76, which worked slower, and more suitable to processing film at the ambient temp of 75 degrees in the darkroom.

Even I, who thinks RODINAL AND TRI X are a match made by angels, think DK-50 isn't really so good for 35. BUT it is wonderful with Plus X in 120. It should do nice things in FP4, which has a tendency to a long straight line curve. TXP or TMY could get out of hand quickly, since they already want to have an upswept curve.

Crawley had something interesting ways to use DK-50 as an acutance developer. Check out some old ( circa 1980s ) BJP almanacs if you're interested.

Have fun.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 28, 2005

jim appleyard said:
Yes, there are many. My point, FWIW, and I guess I should have stated this, is to pick a D-76 varient that will tweak your film to suit your needs; to give it that little extra something.

I've been mixing my own for about 3 years. I call it playing "Evil Scientist". It's great fun and quite a money saver.

Have fun, J

It may work out cheaper if I bought the Sulphite in 5kg packs and also 5kg packs of the Carbonate for the print developer, trouble is, it`s not clear anymore what exactly Kodak put into D-76 these days (see the MSDS on the Kodak website).
I suppose I could try modifying a formula such as Adox MQ Borax and perhaps try the same balance of Borax and Boric acid as used for the Ilford ID68 formula although I`m not sure if it would work. Maybe I should stick with much published formulae that`s more in the public domain for non-chemist like myself.

jim appleyard · Aug 28, 2005

Over here, across the pond, I buy sod. carb decahydrate. It's sold here as Arm & Hammer washing soda. A short conversion from anhydrous or mono will you to use this.

I also mix my own D-76/D-76 versions; I'm too cheap to buy the real stuff.

I BARELY made it thru high school chemistry and I'm mixing my own stuff quite successfully. Being a chemist is not required!

I can't say about your altering the Adox formula; never tried it. But, as always, do a test roll first and if your mixture doesn't work for film, don't toss the leftover--some of these disasters make ok print devs.

Grab copies of Anchell's "Darkroom Cookbook" and Anchell & Troop's "Film developing Cookbook"; lots of great info and recipes in there.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 28, 2005

df cardwell said:
Good Old DK-50 !

It is a wonderful portrait developer, giving nicely compressed shadows, splendid midtoned, and sparkling highlights for accents. Be warned this is desirable for portraiture, and could be disastrous for some landscape work.

In the studio I first worked, we used DK-50 most of the year. In the summer months, we switched to D-76, which worked slower, and more suitable to processing film at the ambient temp of 75 degrees in the darkroom.

Crawley had something interesting ways to use DK-50 as an acutance developer. Check out some old ( circa 1980s ) BJP almanacs if you're interested.

Have fun.

This is something I found interesting, I downloaded the MSDS for DK-50 from the Kodak website and unlike D-76, DK-50 is/was sold as a two-part powder.
This data sheet showed the weight of the components in part A containing Hydroquinone and Elon to hold the equivalent of 5 grams per litre, perfectly logical when you consider that in the published formula, there is 2.5 grams of Elon and Hydroquinone respectively, but in part B containing the sulphite and Metaborate etc, this holds approximately 37.9 grams of components per litre.

Keith Tapscott. · Aug 28, 2005

jdef said:
Keith,

if you're game to try an alternative to DK-50, given the chems you have on hand, you might try:

Bath A

Water 750ml

Sodium sulfite 36g

Hydroquinone 3.6g

metol 1g

ascorbic acid 4g

KBR 1g

water to 1 liter

Bath B

water 750ml

sodium metaborate 100g

water to 1 liter

This is an extremely economical, two-bath developer. Contrast can be controlled over a wide range, by adjusting the time in the A bath. Start with 3min A/ 2min. B for normal contrast with most films, and adjust as necessary. Normal, intermittent agitation in the A bath, and one inversion/30 sec. in the B bath. Both solutions have very long shelf lives, and the A solution can be re-used until there is not enough solution left to cover the film between agitation cycles. The B bath can be made up one-shot, by making a .2% solution (2g/liter) of sodium metaborate, instead of a 10% solution, but you'll have to test for times. Any other alkali, including sodium carbonate, borax, or sodium hydroxide, can be used as well, with some testing.

Expect surprisingly fine grain, and excellent sharpness. I realize that you don't list ascorbic acid among the chems you have on hand, but it's widely available in pharmacies and health food stores. This formula is also the basis for a very good print developer, when modified to a single bath. The attached photo was made with a similar developer, using phenidone instead of metol, and BZT in place of KBR, for both the negative and the print. The negative was made on Forte 400/EI 400, developed in DRU undiluted (same as paper developer) for 60 seconds/70F. The paper was Ilford MG warmtone, and was developed in DRU for 2 min. I use this developer exclusively for paper, and in many forms for film. It can be diluted from the single bath stock, and used one-shot, or used undiluted for extremely short development times, or most economically, as the two-bath developer described above. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly. Good luck.

Jay

I`ve tried two-bath developers before including Leitz/Stoecklers and Tetenal Emofin and have been disapointed with the tonality of the prints made from negs souped in these(Sorry), but thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 28, 2005

Keith Tapscott. said:
This is something I found interesting, I downloaded the MSDS for DK-50 from the Kodak website and unlike D-76, DK-50 is/was sold as a two-part powder.
This data sheet showed the weight of the components in part A containing Hydroquinone and Elon to hold the equivalent of 5 grams per litre, perfectly logical when you consider that in the published formula, there is 2.5 grams of Elon and Hydroquinone respectively, but in part B containing the sulphite and Metaborate etc, this holds approximately 37.9 grams of components per litre.

Hm - 37.9 grams versus 40 grams - not much of a difference. And, Kodak may have put a couple grams of Sodium Sulfite into Part A to help the Elon (Metol) go into solution.

glbeas · Aug 28, 2005

Keith Tapscott. said:
It may work out cheaper if I bought the Sulphite in 5kg packs and also 5kg packs of the Carbonate for the print developer, trouble is, it`s not clear anymore what exactly Kodak put into D-76 these days (see the MSDS on the Kodak website).
QUOTE]

I recently found that a chlorine removal powder sold at pool supply place close to the house is actually sodium sulfite. They also had another brand for the same purpose but was sodium thiosulfate. The sulfite was in 5lb pails so this would fit your bill if you could find a shop nearby selling it. They also told me they had citric acid for some other purpose. I'll be going back later to restock!

removed account4 · Aug 28, 2005

i worked as the lab-guy of a portrait studio throughout 1988-9. she shot large format film and was trained in the 20s-30s ....
i must have put thousands of sheets of 5x7 tri-x and hundred sheets of 4x5 tri-x through the stuff. as previously stated, it is a beautiful developer for portraits. we used to "deep-tank & hanger" our film ... and like a lot of developers out there, we used to "mellow" the new stuff with 1/3 tank of olde developer. it worked really well to lessen the contrasty-ness of the developer. if you find your film contrasty, even after you reduce your time &C, you might consider cutting your new developer with a little exhausted-stuff. folks used to do this sort of thing with "harvey's panthermic 777" too ...
http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Harvey/harvey.html

its been a really long time and i have no idea what the times/temps were, but i am sure what has been suggested will be good starting points.

good luck!

-john

df cardwell · Aug 28, 2005

jnanian said:
...you might consider cutting your new developer with a little exhausted-stuff....

-john

JOHN !

WHAT ARE YOU DOING !

We can't tell ALL the old tricks !!!

removed account4 · Aug 29, 2005

OOPS!!

please disregard the part of my last post where i gave explicit instructions on how to de-contrast the developer ... i don't know what i was thinking giving away trade secrets.

- john

df cardwell said:
JOHN !

WHAT ARE YOU DOING !

We can't tell ALL the old tricks !!!

Gerald Koch · Aug 29, 2005

DK-50 was originally intended for medium and large format negatives and may provide too much grain for 35mm negatives. However, the following modification produces an acutance developer similar to the Beutler and FX-1 formulas which IS suitable for 35mm format.

Kodak DK-50 As An Acutance Developer

DK-50 may be used as an acutance developer when diluted 1+4 and with the sodium metaborate concentration adjusted to its original concentration. This modification provides a useful balance of acutance, gradation and speed with a controlled contrast rise.

Rate films at their normal ISO speed.

Stock Solution A

Undiluted DK-50

Stock Solution B

Distilled water (50°C) ................. 800 ml
Kodak Balanced Alkali .................. 80.0 g
Distilled water to make ................ 1.0 l

Usage

Take 2 parts of Solution A, 1 part of Solution B, and 7 parts water. Use once
and discard. Average development time is 8 to 13 minutes at 20°C.

British Journal of Photography Annual 1972, p 230.

Werewolfman · Jul 3, 2017

Tom Hoskinson said:
Yes, take a look at this APUG thread on DK-50 for some general starting points. Pulverel gives 12 minutes at 20C for Tri-X and that should work as a starting point for HP5.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Since you are mixing your own, I would also recommend Pyrocat-HD for these two films.

fparnold said:
In High School we had a lifetime supply of DK-50, in cans, donated from our local industry. It was beautiful used at 1:1 with HP5, especially if the HP5 was shot on an overcast day. Grainy for 35mm, but a nice, tight, grain with excellent acutance. I found a negative recently where you can still see the weave of denim and the impressed lettering on a full-length portrait.

Unfortunately, I don't remember developing times, except that they were pretty short. (forgive me, but I just had my 20th HS reunion, so my DK50 experience is even older)

The grain from DK-50 1:1 is much finer than Rodinal and has a better mid-tonal reproduction than the other developers. It also has very high sharpness. As far as times go, follow those for Kodak T-Max at the standard 1:4 and you won't go wrong. IMHO, it's way better than D-76 and use it most of the time. It is reusable and you can process 10 rolls per quart at the 1:1 dilution. I use both, DK-50 1:1 and Polydol.

Kodak DK-50. (Homemade.)

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