Kodak Concedes Difficulty in Drawing Lead Bidder for Patents

Photo Engineer · Aug 22, 2012

There are some problems here. Two or more companies have formed a consortium to purchase these patents, thereby raising issues of monopoly and other things frowned upon by the US courts. Therefore the purchase may have to be ruled upon by some other court than the bankruptcy court. This gets stickier and stickier.

PE

RattyMouse · Aug 23, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
There are some problems here. Two or more companies have formed a consortium to purchase these patents, thereby raising issues of monopoly and other things frowned upon by the US courts. Therefore the purchase may have to be ruled upon by some other court than the bankruptcy court. This gets stickier and stickier.

PE

The legal fees must be enormous here. Yet another thing to drain away Kodak's limited cash.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

And here is the next step: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kodak-takes-next-steps-toward-200600489.html

PE

BrianShaw · Aug 23, 2012

... of potential interest, there is a posting from someone who says she is PR rep for the (UK?) film and paper division over on Rangefinder forum.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=122946

Hatchetman · Aug 23, 2012

Photo Engineer said:
And here is the next step: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kodak-takes-next-steps-toward-200600489.html

PE

Sounds like they are selling off consumer film business but keeping commercial film business? Am I reading this right? That does not sound good.

Ken Nadvornick · Aug 23, 2012

So is this the beginning of the long-awaited attempt to spin-off?

Ken

edibot42 · Aug 23, 2012

Hatchetman said:
Sounds like they are selling off consumer film business but keeping commercial film business? Am I reading this right? That does not sound good.

According to the Kodak Professional facebook page, portra, ektar, tri-x, etc. all fall under "consumer". Maybe by commercial they mean motion picture...

SkipA · Aug 23, 2012

The article that PE linked to above says that Kodak is going to sell its Personalized Imaging and Document Imaging businesses. Later in the article it says that the Personalized Imaging business includes Paper & Output Solutions, which includes "... the broadest portfolio of traditional photographic paper and still camera film products."

So that sounds like motion picture film will remain Kodak, and the paper and still camera film will become ... something else. Not Kodak. Will it still be "Tri-X" and "Ektar 100", and "Portra", and so on? Let's hope so, and let's hope it means that production of E6 products might be resumed.

Anyway, this sounds positive for the future of Kodak's film and paper products, even if it's not Kodak any more.

PKM-25 · Aug 23, 2012

BrianShaw said:
... of potential interest, there is a posting from someone who says she is PR rep for the (UK?) film and paper division over on Rangefinder forum.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=122946

Thanks for sharing that. Actually Colleen is based in New York, she probably took on that name to help with the other rumor that started on the site that was via a UK Kodak customer service rep.

Anyone know where Kodak chemistry falls in this?

SkipA · Aug 23, 2012

I thought Kodak chemistry was already spun off a while back, and is a profitable business. Ron will surely know.

lxdude · Aug 23, 2012

The article mentions Kodak's Specialty Chemicals business, whatever that consists of.

It does seem that Kodak wants to keep the movie film.
I thought all the film is made in the same place. I wonder what the plans are regarding that. Maybe Kodak will make film under contract.

I just do not understand why they kept Perez. I'm beginning to think Perez Hilton would have been better.

PKM-25 · Aug 23, 2012

I hope they at least do the coating of master rolls....

Both still and motion stock are coated on the same line in Building 38, which much of the machinery rests on solid blocks of concrete that go down some 40 feet to Rochester bedrock greatly eliminating problematic vibrations. Kodak will continue offering motion stock through 2015 as per a new contract with several major studios, part of their debt is some 26 million owed in overdue rebates to these MP industries.

So maybe they will coat master rolls of it and some other company will slit, package, store and distribute it....?....If not there, then what....

PE, care to weigh in on this?

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

I know nothing. Sorry.

PE

MattKing · Aug 23, 2012

SkipA said:
I thought Kodak chemistry was already spun off a while back, and is a profitable business. Ron will surely know.

The Photo Chemistry was licensed to Champion, and Champion are one of the large creditors owed piles of money according to the bankruptcy filing.

PKM-25 · Aug 23, 2012

MattKing said:
The Photo Chemistry was licensed to Champion, and Champion are one of the large creditor's owed piles of money according to the bankruptcy filing.

Noted.....20 more 5 liter packs of Xtol in my B&H basket.

kb3lms · Aug 23, 2012

So, if maybe someone could distill this down, what exactly is Kodak selling? The still camera films and color paper? Does this include the coating facilities? If it doesn't, what is another company going to do with the recipes for PORTRA, TRI-X and EKTAR, just to name a few flagship products? We've already heard, and some of us experienced first hand, the difficulties inherent in making the same emulsion twice, let alone in another plant. Obviously it can be done, but .... really?

Is this supposed to be another distributorship deal?

Prof_Pixel · Aug 23, 2012

kb3lms said:
So, if maybe someone could distill this down, what exactly is Kodak selling?

I think the answer is that at this point, only upper Kodak management knows what this REALLY means. It MIGHT be just a "trial balloon" to see if there is any interest.

PKM-25 · Aug 23, 2012

kb3lms said:
So, if maybe someone could distill this down, what exactly is Kodak selling? The still camera films and color paper? Does this include the coating facilities? If it doesn't, what is another company going to do with the recipes for PORTRA, TRI-X and EKTAR, just to name a few flagship products? We've already heard, and some of us experienced first hand, the difficulties inherent in making the same emulsion twice, let alone in another plant. Obviously it can be done, but .... really?

Is this supposed to be another distributorship deal?

It can't be the coating facility unless Kodak plans to lease it back for the production of motion stock which they are commited to distrubuting through 2015. There is one big-ass automated coating facility at building 38 that does all the stock, motion, still, etc.

This aspect of the "sale" is at the very least, mystifying.?..

Maybe the motion picture industry will buy it and we will buy still film from them....?.....

RattyMouse · Aug 23, 2012

PKM-25 said:
It can't be the coating facility unless Kodak plans to lease it back for the production of motion stock which they are commited to distrubuting through 2015. There is one big-ass automated coating facility at building 38 that does all the stock, motion, still, etc.

This aspect of the "sale" is at the very least, mystifying.?..

Maybe the motion picture industry will buy it and we will buy still film from them....?.....

FUJIFILM needs to step up and buy this facility. They are always going on and on about their commitment to film. Time to put actions behind those words.

kb3lms · Aug 23, 2012

I think the answer is that at this point, only upper Kodak management knows what this REALLY means.

Oh, that's comforting!

It MIGHT be just a "trial balloon" to see if there is any interest.

Either the balloon or they have a buyer, or at least a buyer in mind that they've had discussions with and have a good idea where it's going to go.

In my experience with corporate deals, very little is done by "rolling the dice." Usually by the time the public hears about something like this it is a done deal. Too many incentive plans, bonuses and plain old money wrapped up in these deals to just hang out a "for sale" sign. Clearly, with the timing of this announcement, if the patent sale didn't do what they wanted, this was "Plan B." There's too much riding on this to just float it out there and see if it sells. Their major creditors would not stand for that. The creditors and/or the courts probably demanded they try to sell the patent portfolio first and this has been brewing in the background and kept within the 19th floor at 343 State Street.

Who is still friendly with Kodak that can do their own coating, wants to have coating done, or might want to contract Kodak's coating? (As in, throw in the towel on Building 38 and divest or shutter it. Building 38 doesn't sound like it fits with Perez's future plans.) Those answers might be very interesting.

Something here doesn't make sense.

SkipA · Aug 23, 2012

RattyMouse said:
FUJIFILM needs to step up and buy this facility. They are always going on and on about their commitment to film. Time to put actions behind those words.

No. Fuji keeps discontinuing films. We would lose more films and more papers if Fuji were to do this.

kb3lms · Aug 23, 2012

FUJIFILM needs to step up and buy this facility. They are always going on and on about their commitment to film. Time to put actions behind those words.

Nope, that isn't going to happen. One, anti-trust. Two, they don't need it. Three, too obvious. It'll be somebody else. Fotokemika is a better bet, but not my pick.

SkipA · Aug 23, 2012

kb3lms said:
(As in, throw in the towel on Building 38 and divest or shutter it. Building 38 doesn't sound like it fits with Perez's future plans.)

Where do you suppose motion picture film will be made? That business is not on the block, and Kodak has just made committments for the next three years.

kb3lms · Aug 23, 2012

Where do you suppose motion picture film will be made?

Building 38

Motion picture film isn't being sold and don't forget about medical imaging film. Surely plenty of that is still coated to be sold through Carestream.

Nobody said that Kodak was still going to be doing the manufacturing, though. My bets are on them divesting the coating operation and setting up a contract for finished goods at a preferred price like they did with Eastman Gelatin. That operator will have the market on selling the flagship still photography films.

I'm thinking this is about no less than shedding themselves of the remnants of Kodak Park and, of course, the employees and costs that go with it.

The other shoe hasn't dropped yet.

Photo Engineer · Aug 23, 2012

Fred, if this is a trial balloon, the Von Hindenberg came to mind right off!

PE

Kodak Concedes Difficulty in Drawing Lead Bidder for Patents

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