Kodak 3a Model B Autographic....how move the lens all the way back?

sffiremedic · Dec 2, 2021

I just came across my father’s Kodak Autographic 3a Model B rangefinder....with a roll of film inside. I pulled the D-ring under the lens and the bellows/lens assembly came out smoothly, but trying to slide back to close, it is hung up at the beginning of the door’s rails, there is a gap between that and the short rails in back. This model does not have the two clasps to squeeze to unlock from the slide, and I cannot find anything else.

Would love to use this camera, the lens appears relatively free of fungus and although there is a lot cleaning to be on the exterior, my first impression of the bellows is they MIGHT be OK. Unfortunately the film appears unused, would love to have found old images. I thought I was rewinding until I Finally saw the frame numbers and stopped at 5. The second photo shows where it is hung up.

Thanks in advance!

Donald Qualls · Dec 2, 2021

Turn the focusing knob (on the camera's right side of the bed) to fully retract the rails and the front standard should then slide back into the body.

Huss · Dec 2, 2021

Rotate the focus prism to the vertical in case it is hanging up.

sffiremedic · Dec 2, 2021

Thank you both! I had to pull the focus knob out before turning, but figured that out.

I wonder if I can unload and rewind the film back to the beginning without fogging? In. dark room with filtered red light.

Now to look for 120 adaptors or film plates, this model does not have the plate focus panel, only the roll film focus guide.

BrianShaw · Dec 2, 2021

You should be able to wind the film and remove without a darkroom. You need to wind to the end (top winding knob) not to the beginning. When fully wound you can remove the back, secure the backing paper and remove the film.

There is a company that specializes in processing old film. On the internet. Can’t remember the name but there’s only one to my knowledge. Might want to pay the price and see what they can get from it.

I have a thread in which I modified a similar model for 120 roll film panorama format. Hunt it down!

Donald Qualls · Dec 2, 2021

I want to say it's something like Rocky Mountain Labs, but if you Google for "process old film" they'll come up.

If you wan to try using the film you found in the camera, you'd need to unload as noted above, then in total darkness roll the backing paper and film back to the (now empty) spool it came from, then load it fresh and wind to 2 (assuming 1 was in the gate for decades, it's likely someone cycled the shutter at least once). Once done, it's probably much more cost effective to process it yourself. I've have very good results with film up to 60 years old using HC-110.

BrianShaw · Dec 2, 2021

… but before considering re-use, check to see what frame number it’s currently on. It would be more fun to see photos from the past than to double expose and get little or nothing.

sffiremedic · Dec 2, 2021

BrianShaw said:
… but before considering re-use, check to see what frame number it’s currently on. It would be more fun to see photos from the past than to double expose and get little or nothing.

Good point, I did not look at the back as I wound, I stopped at 5 finally, there may be an in image on frame 1 or 2...how many images did a 127 roll contain? I may just start shooting at the current Frame 5.

BrianShaw · Dec 2, 2021

If I’m not mistaken the 3A used 122 film for “postcard” size negatives. No?

Looking at the manual, it seems that the film could be 6 exposure or 10 exposure. I guess you’ll find out as you wind it.

https://www.cameramanuals.org/kodak_pdf/kodak_autographic_a3_f6_3.pdf

I’ve never actually seen 122 film. On my 120 conversation I get 4 frames but think I might be able to squeeze out 5.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/1906-kodak-3a.184121/

sffiremedic · Dec 2, 2021

My bad, slip of the finger....122 is correct

Rick A · Dec 3, 2021

sffiremedic said:
Thank you both! I had to pull the focus knob out before turning, but figured that out.

I wonder if I can unload and rewind the film back to the beginning without fogging? In. dark room with filtered red light.

Now to look for 120 adaptors or film plates, this model does not have the plate focus panel, only the roll film focus guide.

Total darkness only, NO FILTERED RED LIGHT or light of any kind. Just advance the film until it's completely wound onto the take up spool and remove.

Donald Qualls · Dec 3, 2021

Rick A said:
NO FILTERED RED LIGHT or light of any kind.

Actually, if the film is orthochromatic (Verichrome as opposed to Verichrome Pan, for instance), it can be safely handled under red safelight -- such as would be used in an enlarging darkroom.

Tel · Dec 3, 2021

I inherited a 3A from a friend years ago and thought I'd like to shoot with it. At the time, the correct size film (90mm more or less) was available in the Ilford "ULF" film sale in 50-foot rolls. I just took a look at the 2020 ULF page and I see it's not listed there. So most likely you'd need to adapt the camera to take 120. I got some images from a roll that was in the camera souped in HC-110 as Donald recommends. Here's my favorite:

img641 by terry, on Flickr

Rick A · Dec 3, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Actually, if the film is orthochromatic (Verichrome as opposed to Verichrome Pan, for instance), it can be safely handled under red safelight -- such as would be used in an enlarging darkroom.

While your statement is technically correct, the OP does not know what the film is and should err on the side of safety. ALSO, you need to reread post #6.

Donald Qualls · Dec 6, 2021

Rick A said:
ALSO, you need to reread post #6.

You mean where I said to unload and reroll in total darkness? Sure, if you don't know what film it is -- but once you've rolled the film through, many films of the day had the film type (i.e. "Verichrome", "Panatomic X" or "Versapan") printed on the backing paper, so you'd be able to tell at that point. If you can't tell, of course you'd treat it as panchromatic -- but then you'd also have no clue what film speed to use (consumer films between 1900 and 1970-something when 122 was discontinued ran in a range from something like modern ISO 12 to 125).

Rick A · Dec 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
You mean where I said to unload and reroll in total darkness? Sure, if you don't know what film it is -- but once you've rolled the film through, many films of the day had the film type (i.e. "Verichrome", "Panatomic X" or "Versapan") printed on the backing paper, so you'd be able to tell at that point. If you can't tell, of course you'd treat it as panchromatic -- but then you'd also have no clue what film speed to use (consumer films between 1900 and 1970-something when 122 was discontinued ran in a range from something like modern ISO 12 to 125).

Can you read the backing paper through the cameras back or the red window?

Donald Qualls · Dec 6, 2021

Rick A said:
Can you read the backing paper through the cameras back or the red window?

Depends what film and how old. Kodak used to print "Verichrome Pan" between frame numbers on 120 and 620, at least -- but that was when they had different backing for those two formats, in the glory days of film (1950s to 1990s?). Now, with the same backing on all films from a given manufacturer/confectioner, that isn't going to happen.

Fortunately, 122 was discontinued long enough ago that, assuming it's Kodak film, it well might have this. But if it does, it surely will also have this information at head and tail of the roll (so readable after unloading, for the processor, for instance). These days that would only be on the hold-down tape at the tail and head.

removed account4 · Dec 6, 2021

from what I understand 122 film was made into the 1970s...

OP. in a dark room roll the film back onto the roll if you have to with the camera aback open, the adhesive tape will be useless but wind it tight on the roll and with the light on ( red or whatever ) look to see what kind of film it is pan or ortho
if its pan you will have to process it using the see saw method in the dark, if its ortho you can do it with the red light on. I wouldn't' waste money sending it to a boutique lab to get the film processed, just do it yourself ..
you have to have an open tray of developer and you hold each end of the roll and see-saw develop it like this
https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Paterson/Developing_Tanks/Tank_History.html
either type of film I'd recommend print developer like d72 or ansco 130 so you get it over with fast ( 1:5 5 mins or 1:6 6 mins ). it will give you contrast and less fog in these developers. .. (I'd say Dektol but I don't know if they figured out the rootbeer batches yet )
not sure you've though to this, but if you trim the edge of 5x7 film it fits in the back of your camera perfectly. I've been shooting home rolled paper negatives on 122 spools and 5x7 sheets in my 3A/post card format camera for 10-15 years

good luck!
John

Donald Qualls · Dec 6, 2021

jnantz said:
you will have to process it using the see saw method in the dark,

Many of the older Yankee and FR tanks (and knockoffs of them) have reels that will accept 116/616 or 122 (the latter less common). It might be possible to get such a tank, though either seesaw or a plastic reel is going to be annoying with film that's been on the spools for almost fifty year (at a minimum). What might be ideal is to try to find an apron wide enough for 122; these are much easier to use when dealing with strongly curled film.

removed account4 · Dec 6, 2021

unless someone decides 122 ( or 116 or whatever obsolete + wide ) film will be a regular occurrence for them to process .. it seems like a waste of time and effort to spend any time and energy searching for some obsolete tank and reel, specialized tray &c ( other than to brag on the internet that they have some uber rare "stuff" ). see saw processing in a tray takes 5 minutes and soon after one can see the film is fogged and useless. ...

Donald Qualls · Dec 6, 2021

jnantz said:
see saw processing in a tray takes 5 minutes and soon after one can see the film is fogged and useless. ...

Have you tried seesaw processing a roll of film that's curled so tight it's hard to hold it straight? You'll never get it to see-saw. Further, doing that in total darkness is far harder than doing it in red safelight (which is how it was usually done, with ortho films like original Verichrome).

removed account4 · Dec 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Have you tried seesaw processing a roll of film that's curled so tight it's hard to hold it straight? You'll never get it to see-saw. Further, doing that in total darkness is far harder than doing it in red safelight (which is how it was usually done, with ortho films like original Verichrome).

Yes I have in total darkness and with a red light. Unlike many on internet photo forums I would never suggest that someone do something I have never done myself and have had experience doing.
There's a lot of nonsense published on the inter-web that is recycled and regurgitated from people who have no idea what they are talking about, I do my best NOT to be one of those people.
You're right its not easy, but at least the film gets processed without searching for years for a piece of useless obsolete equipment to develop film that might be as useless as the equipment searched for and found.

of course for some people its a hobby and they get great enjoyment searching for years for stuff, and developing film in some wacky contraption, more power to them!
YMMVFTSOTCOTUCDW

BrianShaw · Dec 6, 2021

Although I advocate sending the film to an obsolete film specialist, I'd use the seesaw method long before any other method. Imagine how much more difficult it would be to find the right tank or apron.

Tel · Dec 7, 2021

To develop my roll of 122, I got some PVC pipe from my hardware store and hacked up a Paterson reel. It sorta/kinda worked: the width of the film and the thinness of the base made it floppy and difficult to keep in the grooves. Seesaw would have been much better.

Kodak 3a Model B Autographic....how move the lens all the way back?

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