Kodak’s “Willow Pond”

Bill Burk · May 22, 2020

Every once in a while I get a wild idea of getting my hands on an original print from the Lloyd Jones studies, of Willow Pond.

Does anyone have a copy, or know what it looks like? Was it printed in a decent quality book? Or at least an online reference?

Lachlan Young · May 23, 2020

Bill Burk said:
Every once in a while I get a wild idea of getting my hands on an original print from the Lloyd Jones studies, of Willow Pond.

Does anyone have a copy, or know what it looks like? Was it printed in a decent quality book? Or at least an online reference?

A quick search suggests that it was reproduced as a figure in two articles by Loyd A. Jones in the Journal of the Franklin Institute in the November 1926 and January 1927 publications of the aforesaid journal. Have you tried contacting the GEM to see if they have the image in their archives?

Lachlan Young · May 23, 2020

Just to add, this article looks like it may contain some of the information you are looking for - if you know anyone with suitable institutional access...

ic-racer · May 23, 2020

(Sarcasm Alert)

The foundation of 1960s Avant-garde photography....first example of landscape as 'Object' in photography....

The camera objectifies the land as landscape and thereby renders it as a visual phenomenon
Photography and Landscape
By Rod Giblett, Juha Tolonen

It [Willow Pond] was chosen specifically for the early work on this problem [Sensitometric Criteria of Negative Film Speeds] because it represents a rather typical exterior composition.
Jones and Nelson 1940

John Gossage "The Pond"

Bill Burk · May 24, 2020

ic-racer said:
(Sarcasm Alert)

The foundation of 1960s Avant-garde photography....first example of landscape as 'Object' in photography....

View attachment 246825

John Gossage "The Pond"
View attachment 246826

View attachment 246827

Thanks ic-racer that’s definitely Willow Pond Rochester. I can get postcards of it (not necessarily Kodak’s)

Looks like postcard photos are typically aimed left and right of the scene...

ic-racer · May 24, 2020

That Willow Pond image I posted above is from this paper. You don't have that one?

Journal of The OPTICAL SOCIETY of AMERICA
VOLUME 30 MARCH, 1940
NUMBER 3
A Study of Various Sensitometric Criteria of Negative Film Speeds*
LOYD A. JONES AND C. N. NELSON
Kodak Research Laboratories,Rochester,New York

Lachlan Young · May 24, 2020

Apparently the pond in question was about a mile down the road from GEH/ GEM & built 1906, filled-in 1955...

reddesert · May 24, 2020

Interesting idea and thanks for the links.
The paper referred to by ic-racer is Jones & Nelson 1940, "A Study of Various Sensitometric Criteria of Negative Film Speeds," https://www.osapublishing.org/josa/abstract.cfm?uri=josa-30-3-93
The paper Lachlan posted the link to is Jones & Nelson 1942, "The Control of Photographic Printing by Measured Characteristics of the Negative," https://www.osapublishing.org/josa/abstract.cfm?uri=josa-32-10-558
Both are paywalled but a university library with a subscription to JOSA can get access. I looked at the 1942 paper and there isn't a reproduction of the Willow Pond scene. The only figure that shows an image is Fig 12 showing how they displayed the prints for evaluation:

ic-racer · May 24, 2020

I hope all can read the article. But all may not realize that ISO came from ASA which came from the work of these authors (and others) defining 0.3G which is all based on panels of observers looking at prints that are photographs of a transparency! Just a little FYI

I guess one would need to know that to understand my sarcasm in my post above. The 'Test Object' is not the actual pond, the 'Object' is a photograph of the pond. Thus the reference to objectification in photography and art.

Willow Pond was one of the transparencies. I'm sure Bill knows all that, thus, I suspect, his fascination with the image. On a related topic, I wonder where the original transparency is? Too bad PE is not with us any longer, maybe he knows if it was preserved at Kodak as a standard, like the International Prototype Kilogram...

ic-racer · May 24, 2020

Willow Pond via Google Map (2012). Same pond? Looks so different. EDIT: the original pond was filled in in 1955 (thanks Latchlan Young).

Lachlan Young · May 24, 2020

@ic-racer Confusingly, that may not be the Willow Pond of the article - the best I could turn up was this snippet associated with some of the postcards Bill found:

"1530 East Avenue, Rochester, N.Y. The Willow Pond was located at a home at 550 East Avenue (number later changed to 1530 - now Valley Manor Assisted Living ). The home and pond were built c.1906 for William D. Hayes and later owned by Charles D. Brown. In 1955, the pond was filled in."

If that information is correct, the pond was about a mile down the street from the GEM.

Bill Burk · May 25, 2020

A topo map of Rochester from 1920 shows this pond with an island, my guess it’s the location. Too bad it wasn’t maintained as a historical landmark.

Bill Burk · May 25, 2020

I knew it was one master, a positive makes sense so the tests could include different developing times for the film.

The science display in three rows with fist second and third choice highlighted is interesting.

Maybe I can do a similar set from a typical negative of mine.

I found in my recent darkroom session that my negatives taken with “modern” 35 mm cameras like OM-4 and ES-II are more consistent for printing than the negatives (even recent work) taken with vintage (Kodak Retina, etc.) cameras.

MarkS · Jul 2, 2020

Now as then, a very wealthy neighborhood. 1530 East Ave. itself is a semi-high rise. Expensive modern condos and enormous pre-WWII mansions are what fill that area... as I was born and raised in Rochester I know that part of town well. No doubt that the Willow Pond was a scenic landmark back in the day, witness the postcards. Easy test subject!
But you never know... I found a pair of test photos in Dr. Kingslake's "Lenses in Photography" that I was able to identify as being taken from a north-facing window of Kodak's Hawkeye plant (but then I worked at that complex for 25 years).

Kodak’s “Willow Pond”

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