Kodacolor X in Rodinal

OptiKen · Apr 21, 2017

(I cross published this thread in B&W: Film, Paper, and Chemistry as well.)

One of the cameras I recently received has an old roll of exposed Kodacolor X in it. This is a color print, 64 asa, C-22 process film. While not expecting much if at all, I would like to try to develop it.
I am thinking of trying Rodinal (1+40) @ 20c for 30 min - agitating on the 10 minute marks.

Any other ideas or suggestions for this attempt?

Thanks in advance

Ken

trendland · Apr 21, 2017

OptiKen said:
(I cross published this thread in B&W: Film, Paper, and Chemistry as well.)

One of the cameras I recently received has an old roll of exposed Kodachrome X in it. This is a color print, 64 asa, C-22 process film. While not expecting much if at all, I would like to try to develop it.
I am thinking of trying Rodinal (1+40) @ 20c for 30 min - agitating on the 10 minute marks.

Any other ideas or suggestions for this attempt?

Thanks in advance

Ken

Well - this could be a good idea.
But it is an experiment - hope you agree?

Noting bad will happen, no fire, no explosions a.s.o.

But the correct developping time is
the result.

Do you have more old Kodachrome x
for experimental use ?

Perhaps you better extend your devellopement a bit 40Min. ?

But without guaratee

Bon Chance

BAC1967 · Apr 21, 2017

If I was going to develop it in Rodinal I would do Semi-Stand in 1:100. I have had good results developing Kodacolor-X in my own Beerenol recipe:

Gun at Illahee State Park by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Illahee Pier by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

The Recipe:

Beer (cheap Lager, I used Fosters) - 12oz
Sodium Carbonate (Arm & Hammer Washing Soda) - 2.75 Tsp
Ascorbic Acid Powder (Vitamin C) - 1.25 Tsp
Salt (Morton's Iodized Table Salt) - 1/4 Tsp

Developed at 20 degrees C for 20 minutes. Agitate first 30 seconds then 15 seconds every minute. Normal fix.

Double the recipe for medium format film.

Warning - Add the Ascorbic Acid after the Sodium Carbonate to avoid a foam explosion.

removed account4 · Apr 21, 2017

hi ken

i regularly process color film ( c41/e6 ) in black and white chemistry
i've never used rodinal, just ansco 130, dektol and caffenol C .. cheap beer is for drinkin'
cheap coffee is for developer

OptiKen · Apr 21, 2017

Trendland: I only WISH I had more rolls of it to experiment with. As it is, this one roll will be my experiment until I find some more serendipitously.
BAC1967: I like the beerinol idea. I haven't tried it before but have a St. Patrick's day recipe someone posted using Guiness. I am going with your recipe.
Jnanian: Yes, Caffenol C is what I was also thinking about but I have some beer at home and I don't drink any more so I'll try that.

Thanks all.
I'm ready!

trendland · Apr 21, 2017

OptiKen said:
Trendland: I only WISH I had more rolls of it to experiment with. As it is, this one roll will be my experiment until I find some more serendipitously.
BAC1967: I like the beerinol idea. I haven't tried it before but have a St. Patrick's day recipe someone posted using Guiness. I am going with your recipe.
Jnanian: Yes, Caffenol C is what I was also thinking about but I have some beer at home and I don't drink any more so I'll try that.

Thanks all.
I'm ready!

Sorry,I made a little misstake.
I just read it later - you mentioned in your tread that it is a printfilm.
That seams to be not correct.

Kodachrome is a slidefilm.

And kodakchrome 25/62/200 was in
K14.

No Problem - so you want bw.

But Kodachrome x was earlier - so I guess you can not overdevellope your film.
Better method therefore - you have to cut your film.

First devellopement with your 30min.
to some frames, then next 4 -6 frames
with stronger devellopement.
And after that you will have somewhere the near of nescessary time.
Yes - rodinal is a strong develloper but you will need this.

Exposures of 1970 ????

Give them more and more time frame to frame !

with regards

BAC1967 · Apr 21, 2017

OptiKen said:
Trendland: I only WISH I had more rolls of it to experiment with. As it is, this one roll will be my experiment until I find some more serendipitously.
BAC1967: I like the beerinol idea. I haven't tried it before but have a St. Patrick's day recipe someone posted using Guiness. I am going with your recipe.
Jnanian: Yes, Caffenol C is what I was also thinking about but I have some beer at home and I don't drink any more so I'll try that.

Thanks all.
I'm ready!

I saw the Guiness recipe, I think mine works better, maybe because I have spent more time refining it. I always us a cheap lager like Pabst or Budweiser because despite what Jnanian said, it's not worth drinking. Cheap lagers are all pretty much the same so you get relatively consistent results.

OptiKen · Apr 21, 2017

trendland said:
Sorry,I made a little misstake.
I just read it later - you mentioned in your tread that it is a printfilm.

You didn't make a mistake. I did!
I've corrected it in my post. The film I have is Kodacolor X - the print film

Thanks again

Ken

trendland · Apr 22, 2017

OptiKen said:
You didn't make a mistake. I did!
I've corrected it in my post. The film I have is Kodacolor X - the print film

Thanks again

Ken

Well - Kodakolor x is the name of your
threat (in big letters)

Obviously I have lost my glasses yesterday.

I often heard aboud Kodachrome x and
never heard aboud Kodakolor x before.

That's new for me So I mixed it up
twice.

But never mind - same procedure as I would advice : Without guarantees of
cause.

And when you cut this film you will lose
2 - 5 frames ( by cutting through some
frames in the middle) but this seams to be better than have insufficient developing for the whole film.

I found same data from Kodakolor x.
And yes as you mentioned it is C-22 !
In the data I have (127 rolls) it has
Asa 80 - 20 Din. but that is of cause
not THE fact of interest here.

More interesting : "produced from 1963 !!! - 1974.

So the latest exposures should be in this
Film from 1977? ? - that seams to be realistic.

But the earlier could be from 1963 - 65 ?
Berhaps you can isolate the time in concerns of the production date of your
camera.
I would say the middle of all is also realistic so we have the year 1970.

Bad latend frames in bw. after 47 years.
But possible with very strong develloper.

Thats my final suggestion - You will be the very first with the experience of
nearly 50 years old exposures of
KODAKOLOR X in regard to developing
times with rodinal.

Bon Chance ......again

Trask · Apr 22, 2017

BAC1967 said:
I saw the Guiness recipe, I think mine works better, maybe because I have spent more time refining it. I always us a cheap lager like Pabst or Budweiser because despite what Jnanian said, it's not worth drinking. Cheap lagers are all pretty much the same so you get relatively consistent results.

Why double the recipe of Beeronol for medium format? I believe a 36 exp roll of 35mm film is approximately the same square inches of film as a roll of 120 film -- 80 square inches. So why the difference? And -- do you mean to we should use 24 ounces of beer, etc. for one roll of film?

trendland · Apr 22, 2017

Trask said:
Why double the recipe of Beeronol for medium format? I believe a 36 exp roll of 35mm film is approximately the same square inches of film as a roll of 120 film -- 80 square inches. So why the difference? And -- do you mean to we should use 24 ounces of beer, etc. for one roll of film?

You are perfectly right Trask - one roll of
120 film has actually a little less square
inches of a single 135-36 film.
You can also see this fact by comparision between film prices of each
emmulsion in different formats.

Yust Ilford gives their 120 rolls ca.10%
cheaper away.

But I wonder too - perhaps they're only
gotta be kidding.

with regards

BAC1967 · Apr 22, 2017

Trask said:
Why double the recipe of Beeronol for medium format? I believe a 36 exp roll of 35mm film is approximately the same square inches of film as a roll of 120 film -- 80 square inches. So why the difference? And -- do you mean to we should use 24 ounces of beer, etc. for one roll of film?

That just depends on your developing tank for what you need to submerge the film. twelve ounces is a one beer batch and 24 ounces is a two beer batch. I made this recipe simple so I can do it anywhere without having to bring scales and stuff with me. I travel a lot for work so I'm often developing film in a hotel bathroom. I'm sure the recipe can be refined more, really it would only take a little more to cover 120 film, so you can drink some of the beer. I also use the two beer recipe for 4x5 film.

chassis · Apr 22, 2017

Off topic - wow not familiar with Beerenol. What is the developing agent in the working solution? Pretty funny/clever/cool!

Are any film speed adjustments required when using Beerenol?

trendland · Apr 22, 2017

BAC1967 said:
That just depends on your developing tank for what you need to submerge the film. twelve ounces is a one beer batch and 24 ounces is a two beer batch. I made this recipe simple so I can do it anywhere without having to bring scales and stuff with me. I travel a lot for work so I'm often developing film in a hotel bathroom. I'm sure the recipe can be refined more, really it would only take a little more to cover 120 film, so you can drink some of the beer. I also use the two beer recipe for 4x5 film.

But you would agree with - your recipe would also works perfekt with the same
amound of "Aqua Pura" tablewater instead of lager beer - I suppose?
In use with washing soda and ascorbit acid of cause.
Perhaps one change the amound of
Morton's table salt against 1 slice of lemmon.
Always avaible in the bar of a hotel.

Attention : Never use Kellogg's Special
K20 Protein Water because it's to much expensive. A good substitude than
(thinking in concerns of economy)
will be Water from the tap.

with regards

BAC1967 · Apr 22, 2017

chassis said:
Off topic - wow not familiar with Beerenol. What is the developing agent in the working solution? Pretty funny/clever/cool!

Are any film speed adjustments required when using Beerenol?

Cafeic acid is found in pretty much any plant, some have more than others. I started looking into cafeic acid and discovered that oats have a lot. So that led me to beer. I have not refined the recipe much beyond what I posted above. It works really well with Ilford Delta 100, I wasn't very happy with the results I got from Tri-X. I'm sure someone that knows more about developers than I do could refine the recipe better. I know there are some pretty smart people on here that have done a lot with caffenol.

BAC1967 · Apr 22, 2017

trendland said:
But you would agree with - your recipe would also works perfekt with the same
amound of "Aqua Pura" tablewater instead of lager beer - I suppose?
In use with washing soda and ascorbit acid of cause.
Perhaps one change the amound of
Morton's table salt against 1 slice of lemmon.
Always avaible in the bar of a hotel.

Attention : Never use Kellogg's Special
K20 Protein Water because it's to much expensive. A good substitude than
(thinking in concerns of economy)
will be Water from the tap.

with regards

I haven't tried just water but I did try coconut water.

Coconal Test by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Pure Coconut Water (I used Vita Coco brand) - 500mL
Washing Soda - 20g
Vitamin C - 8g
Develop at 20 degrees C for 15 minutes. 30 seconds of agitation at start and 15 seconds for every minute after that.

Clearly the recipe needs some work but I think this answers the question that has stumped the scientific community for decades: How did the castaways develop the film in the Gilligan's Island episode Castaway Pictures Presents? Now we know.

http://gilligan.wikia.com/wiki/Castaways_Pictures_Presents

OptiKen · Apr 22, 2017

Ok...here are the results.
This roll had only 4 frames exposed on it (that I could see, anyway). Only two of those frames produced images.
Bad images.
But it was fun (I'm still grinning) and an experiment. The negatives were extremely thick (dark) with a strong orange cast. They developed with half of the frame darker than the other which tells me that I probably should have doubled the 'Beeranol" recipe I followed from BAC1967 and will use it again should I come across more old, old film. Considering that this roll was exposed around 50 years ago and has set in the camera subject to unknown environmental changes, I am very happy to have gotten anything.
And this is what I got....

Anyone with suggestions, your comments would be appreciated. Also, if you are able to date the images from what you see, please post your best guess.

Thanks...it's been fun
Ken

BAC1967 · Apr 22, 2017

OptiKen said:
Ok...here are the results.
This roll had only 4 frames exposed on it (that I could see, anyway). Only two of those frames produced images.
Bad images.
But it was fun (I'm still grinning) and an experiment. The negatives were extremely thick (dark) with a strong orange cast. They developed with half of the frame darker than the other which tells me that I probably should have doubled the 'Beeranol" recipe I followed from BAC1967 and will use it again should I come across more old, old film. Considering that this roll was exposed around 50 years ago and has set in the camera subject to unknown environmental changes, I am very happy to have gotten anything.
And this is what I got....
View attachment 177635 View attachment 177636
Anyone with suggestions, your comments would be appreciated. Also, if you are able to date the images from what you see, please post your best guess.

Thanks...it's been fun
Ken

Way to go Ken! I would say that car in the background is your best hope of dating the images but it's hard to tell what it is.

Kodacolor X in Rodinal

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