Kodachrome Home Development - I've an idea

df cardwell said:

My 2000 FCW has been depressed ever since K64 120 died.

But it was FUN for a while !

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But my 2000FC is now happy since I gave it a 65mm Hartblei $200 PC lens

Photo Engineer said:

I am sure Kodachrome was available in sizes up to 8x10. The largest box of it (empty) that I ever saw was in a vacant lab at EK when I moved in. It was a 10 sheet box of 5x7 labeled Kotavachrome. That was a variant, I was told, on Kodachrome.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that. I had that box for years, and kept samples in it carrying them back and forth from the 1B room to my lab and etc. Then it vanished into the mists of whatever.

We could spool 120 with backing paper if needed, I'm sure, I just never saw it done in KRL. In fact, I never saw it done with pre-production samples either. They were all 35mm.

PE

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I found this bit of information through Google from a forum that is apparently defunct at the moment:

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For those interested, I contacted Kodak and they suggested I contact the International Museum of Photography (aka George Eastman House). Here is the response I got from the Conservation Department at the museum:

It sounds like you have a Kotavachrome, the professional version of Kodachrome prints. They were made from Kodachrome transparencies - a positive print from a positive transparency - hence the term Direct Positive (no negative was involved). They were introduced in the early 1940's, and were still around in the mid 50's, I believe. They were never very popular.

They are on cellulose acetate base containing white pigment. Over time the acetate becomes very brittle, it can also shrink. As for preservation, keep them cool and dry and out of light. I'd make a good copy if you wish to preserve the image. To keep the image long term, it would need to be kept in cold storage - like a refrigerator or freezer. This will slow deterioration way down, but does limit access.

Well, if that is the case, the box was labeled as if it was film. Very odd.

I have gotten Kodachrome prints, and when I got them, they were called just that. Kodachrome prints. In fact, I have a few small pieces of the uncoated white support here.

I would like to suggest that Kotavachrome might have been a professional sheet version of Kodachrome. The reflection print material was handled in rolls from what I was told.

In any event, it was interesting to me at the time. No one really seemed to know what it was and I doubt that anyone but a conservator at GEH would know and even then there is an element of doubt due to poorly kept records or secrets. The Kotavachrome, for example, if a print material, would never have been sold outside of EK, and used internally would have had an entirely different packaging!

I'm having lunch with a GEH conservator tomorrow, so I'll ask him.

Thanks for the information.

PE

From a site in Dutch language I gather that, beginning in 1941, there were two versions of paper to make direct prints from Kodachrome: Minicolor and Kotavachrome. The former was for amateur purposes, the latter for prints from professional sheet film. It is quite possible they were never sold outside of Kodak, but rather used only in Kodak's own labs.

Petzi: I believe you are right about Ansel, but certainly Weston shot 8x10 Kodachromes, I have seen them. The recent Weston exhibit at GEH had a few of them included. As they were samples of an early emulsion forumulation, I believe, I couldn't tell if their condition was due to age or the formulation at the time. The colour was not as saturated as we associate with Kodachrome, and it appeared there may have been some fading. Also, for the most part the compositions were not that interesting. It was evident that Weston did not "see" in colour as well as monocrhome.

As for the prints, I have a small print from ~1946-47 that is imprinted Kodachrome on the back. Again, the colours are more muted than modern Kodachrome, but it is otherwise in good shape and the base is as PE describes.

I recall Kodachrome Professional being sold in 120, but it was discontinued just as I was starting out in photography. That's my story, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.

Earl

We had Kodachrome 120 in the store I worked at, when I first started there, and I am sure I have seen old rolls of 120 on ebay in the past....hmmmm

Yes, Kodachrome 64 professional was available in 120. The last processing run was done around 2000 at Winbledon UK facility. Sheet film was available from 1944 (?) until 1955 as Kodachrome professional. I've got a Kodak Reference guide from wartime that I'll have to look up, as it listed the available formats.

I have seen original 5x7 Kodachromes, they made excellent contact prints on Cibachrome.

I spoke with a GEH conservator yesteray about this. He confirmed that Kotavachrome was a print material on an opaque white plastic base. He also reminded me that both it and the film versions were available as a two color and a 3 color film depending on the time period we are talking about.

I would guess that Kotavachrome was terminated about when Kodachrome converted from the original bleach diffusion process to the current Kodachrome multiple reexposure process. In that case, type "R" prints or type "C" prints via an internegative would have replaced Kotavachrome.

Taking this into consideration then, Kotavachrome was packed in 5x7 boxed sheets the same as film, and was packed in full trade dress at EK. It was apparently also packed in rolls of about 250 ft or so.

In addition, I managed to locate my last (empty) box of Kodachrome professional sheet film in 5x7 size to show him, and I gave him a small sample of bare Kotavachrome base, about 6" long and about 4" wide.

The Kotavachrome base was also being considered for use in another product that was never released. Its release date, as I've mentioned here before was to have been the day after Pearl Harbor was attacked, and it was therefore cancelled due to the war effort. After the war, it was never reconsidered for release.

PE

Thanks for the update, PE.

Photo Engineer said:

Taking this into consideration then, Kotavachrome was packed in 5x7 boxed sheets the same as film, and was packed in full trade dress at EK. It was apparently also packed in rolls of about 250 ft or so.

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The Kotavachrome sheets were probably intended for contact prints I would assume.

I have a copy of the Kodak Reference Handbook from 1944, and it describes the Kodachrome process and prints available. There were two types, Kodak Minicolor for prints from 35mm slides, and Kotavachrome prints from the professional fims, which were sheet Kodachrome - available in sizes up to 11x14.

Quoted from the book: "Instead of a paper base, a white, pigmented cellulose acetate support is used for these prints. This gives them the feel of a fine playing card."

And:

"Kotavachrome Professional Prints are primarily intended for the commercial field. Each order receives individual attention, and the customer's instructions regarding the making of the print are followed whenever possible. Such instructions should be explicit to avoid misunderstandings. Every effort is made to assure the finest possible reproduction of the Kodachrome originals."

It goes on to further state that the max size is 11x14, and standard sizes are 8x10 and 11x14. Prints are made from all sizes of original except 45x107mm, 6x13 cm, and 11x14 inch, so that says that it isn't a contact printing paper. Cropping can be specified, so it sounds like it was a custom lab service.

In the film section it lists the worldwide processing locations and the only two that did the sheet film are Rochester and Hollywood.