Kodabromide question

Hi all,

I am trying to print on some old Kodabromide F2S paper using Ilford Multigrade Dev (1+9) and have a few questions:

1. Is there some reason this paper+dev combo would have trouble producing true black?
2. Is this paper significantly slower than Ilford MG IV RC paper? For the same negative, I can get close to pure black on the Ilford paper with a 30sec exposure, while Kodabromide gives only greys with a 60 sec exposure. (I removed the #2 VC filter when exposing the Kodabromide - I assumed that graded paper doesn't need the filter. And in any case, removing the filter could only increase the effective exposure).
3. I tested a sheet developed without any exposure, and another sheet fixed without any development - no fog as far as I can tell. Are fogging and lowering of contrast with age unrelated (i.e., I could have the latter without the former)?

Thanks --- Karthik

Old Kodabromide? Easy answers to your questions...

1. Age. Kodabromide ceased to be produced - when? 30 years ago? Even frozen, it would be way past their prime now. In fact, unopened boxes of the stuff fetch more (as collectibles) on THAT web site than more recent stocks of Kodabrome RC. Believe me. I have sold some before, so I know!

2. It was a quite fast paper, in its day. The three last words are the clincher. You are trying to print with antique paper.

3. Not sure how you did your tests, so cannot comment. In my experience, unexposed paper doesn't readily show fog. Make a print on it, and you will see how it turns out. If mostly grey, it's gone.

Here is someone who, just last month, disposed (profitably, I must say) of 2,500+ sheets of Kodabromide/Kodabrome I had lovingly kept deep frozen for the better part of - hm. Since 1990-1991, I think. Did some basic tests, and found it unusable.

There comes a time in the life of every darkroom worker, where the bullet must be bitten, and one must accept that some papers (and films) are just too old to be useable. Again, I know of what I speak. Am just now waiting for 100 rolls of Kodak Panatomic, frozen about 1987-1988 when, if memory serves me reliably, Kodak ceased to produce it. Three 100-foot bulk rolls, the rest 36 exposure pre spooled rolls. I will test shoot 1-2 of the rolls, and if it still produces images, then I may list the rest for sale, if it is useable. Believe collectors pay ridiculous prices for it. I went to the Tmax films in the 1990s, and when I had worked out how to process that then somewhat fussy emulsion correctly, have never looked back.

So why did I keep the frozen stocks so long? Hm. Why do I still insist on doing photography with a Nikkormat and a Rolleiflex?

You and I may be kith and kin...

Damn - it was actually a sealed box with 500 sheets. I should have sold it as a collectible item

My test print looks OK except for lacking contrast. No fog.

If you are at all like me, you won't give up so easily. Try a stronger mixture of Multigrade, say 1+4 initially, with short exposure time and short (one minute or less) development time. Or 1+2.

My old papers always seem to come up better (I resisted saying "OK") with a nip or two (literally - 35-50 mls for the first shot, then a second shot if you see some improvement, but not enough in the blacks) of a 10% sodium carbonate solution in your developer. You may find sod carb (no offense meant) in your local supermarket (I get it from the IGA in North Melbourne at about $4.50 for 750 mls, I think) in the laundry section. Failing that, a shot of benzo (triazole), which you will have to buy from a photo specialist shop, but not expensive (Vanbar in Melbourne have it, not expensive) but more diluted, say 1+50, and in 10-20 ml slugs. One very old pro photographer I used to buy chemicals and paper from in Moncton, New Brunswick (Canada) in the very early 1960s, used to swear by a mixture of 1+25 sodium chloride (salt) in the developer mix, but again, as I recall, in very small doses. 10 ml lots. Cannot recall if I ever tried it in my home darkroom at that time. I switched to Polycontrast and then Polycontrast Rapid in the mid 1960s and found an instant BIG improvement in my print quality, but still have a few original Kodabromide 8x10"s I would have made about 1961-1962. Not even fading. It was a good paper in its time. Ilford produces, or did produce, a fairly similar paper, Ilfospeed, but not sure if it is still available. Anyway, keep experimenting!

One last thought. Just repack the 500 sheet box carefully, and try listing it anyway in you know where. Collectors are an insane lot. Whatever you get fo rit can be used to buy more good paper. Still lots out there.

Thanks for the sodium carbonate suggestion. My problem turned out to be dead developer. I tried the paper with a new bottle of Ilford MG dev and it worked fine - no fog, and I now get true black.

Also be sure to try from the middle of the box.

With old papers, the top few sheets act a lot different than the middle in my experience.

Oh, and I love squeezing good images out of old papers. Anybody should be able to get a good shot out of new paper.

Get a step wedge; it will soon be your friend to figure out paper speed and contrast range, with fixed grade and MG papers.

Old papers loose contrast. Like a grade 5 now a 1 to 1.5.
I actually go out and shoot and deliberately over develop to get contrast to match the soft old paper response from time to time.

You might try using Dektol 1:1 or Dektol 1:2. That might improve the contrast and speed.

But what they all said! Old paper.

PE