knowing your materials

a lot of people know me / my photography
and they must say "that guy uses expired paper, developer and film,
GREAT SCOTT!
but in actuality i have an idea
about the paper i use, and the
film i expose and what my developer is up to .....

i know a lot of people here on apug only use paper and film and developer of a known origin
but i am sure there are others who buy and use accordingly.


what was the last expired paper or film or developer you used
and how did it work out ?

please do NOT make this a bash thread, thanks.

well, what kind of "bash" are you implying? the good kind where it is a party, and everyone is having TOO good of a time, or bash like "bash your head in with a baseball bat? I hope its the former and not the latter, I do not like the sight of blood!!!!!!!!, I have a box of tech pan @25 sheets of 10x8, waiting for the right project, I bought it new in 1999. I hope I do not have to wait another 16 years to use it! I have bought some fuji color film expired with some interesting results. But The best results so far is the the agfa aviphot 200 expired / interesting, bought it in roll (24cm x 76m) and have been cutting it up into 5x4, funky stuff.

thanks for your response gzinsel
it is mostly the kind that is troublesome !

I am using a lot of old expired B&W film these days -- 120 to 8x10. Some Tech Pan from the early 70s, too (120 and 4x5 -- would love to get my hands on some 8x10!). Some old Kodak Copy Film would be nice,too

Some base fog, but great prints.

I've generally had fantastic luck with expired paper. For instance, I got 100 sheets of pre-Harman Kentmere VCRC glossy the other week for under a tenner, and it prints beautifully. In fact I like it much better than the current Harman RC offerings!
On the other hand, I also bought some old Ilfospeed VCRC the other week equally cheaply and it's age-fogged almost beyond use, even for paper negs.
So it's not all sunshine.

I never buy very expired film, mostly because it seems to command a premium price over fresh in the UK!

If I can get a bargain bucket of a dozen of Acros (or Tri-X or FP4 or HP5 etc) that's a couple of years out, I will, but these sorts of deals are few and far between over here. My last lot was a nice mix of Acros and Neopan1600 from a UK APUG forum member at a very cool price.

I managed to collect about 30 rolls of 120 Acros dated 2011/12/13 too but I hardly shoot 120 at the moment

The 35mm acros is all gone now but I've got a 30M roll of delta 100 in the sock drawer, dated 2014, to start rolling.

My 35mm use has gone down a lot as I move towards LF, and I do keep my eye out for old paper to use as negatives. I won't make the Ilfospeed mistake again though (I wonder if it's got incorporated developer?)

I have 5 boxes of Tech pan waiting to be used and I've been using expired paper for lith prints. I have some Ektalure, Medalist, Polycontrast and some Brovira (along with boxes of other stuff that I can't remember at the moment). I also have old bottles of HC-110 and an old bottle of Rodinal though I haven't tried either developer.

The night Philip Glass showed up at our dress rehearsal (it was his opera, Orphee, staged here in Pittsburgh last year), I was prepared for nothing more than some casual backstage shooting with expired Fujicolor Press 400. The film was from an APUG member who sent it for the cost of shipping. I hadn't refrigerated or froze it, and I think neither did he. I recently developed it and thought it came out quite good. Developed and printed with fresh materials though...

With the exception of chemicals and contact proof print paper, I barely have any materials which aren't well out of date. The last thing I used was some Kodak Professional Ortho Film 10"x12" cut down for use in a loaned 4x5 camera (thank you Mick Fagan!). The paper has a handwritten note of 11th October 1974 on it. Given that it was my first use of a "real" (as opposed to DIY) large format camera and my first use of this particular film, I'm not too unhappy with the result:





My "paper inventory" picture is of every packet which has crossed my path since 2009. I've given some away, some were mostly empty and others were completely fried. Nevertheless, I've been blessed with a lot of fun and interesting paper to play with over the past six years.

Unless the film is extremely outdated (1980's or earlier, for instance) or has been stored in ridiculously suboptimal conditions I've had quite a bit of success. In fact, I've had more "failure" with allegedly in-date film from a major manufacturer that is being sold at bargain-basement prices. I'd say more but I've been warned that I shouldn't poke at that hornets nest any more.

Moli, wow!

fotch said:

Molli, wow!

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Is that in response to my hoarding abilities? I usually try to refrain from advertising what a little pack rat I am, but John did ask..... sort of!

When it comes to expired film, I don't think there is anything better than Kodak Verichrome Pan. I've shot several rolls of it that were over 40 years old and they come out quite well.

Ansco Buster Brown #2 box camera (c.1916-1920) with Kodak Verichrome Pan (expired 1969):





...and a 4x5 paper negative from last weekend shot on Kodabrome II RC paper that's about 25 years old:



These are all scans from the negatives as I've not had a chance to print them yet, but none of these took a lot of post work so they should print fairly well.

Not all expired photography components are bad. In terms of functionality, I'm more concerned about fungus, base fog, and other damage, rather than the date.

I have several expired films, and one is my current favorite. I have a batch of Tri-X TX-120 that expired in 3/80, shoot it at 200, and develop in Diafine. I believe that Diafine's big push of this films speed offsets the age reduction of speed(assumes 1600 start and knocked off a stop for each decade tog et the 200 speed). Only 10 rolls left of it, though.

Funny you raise this question ...

This coming Saturday is Argus Day ("Argust 15th") and last night I spooled off two 20 exposure rolls of Panatomic-X, expiration date December 1988. I was given a 100 foot bulk roll a year and half back. I used it successfully last year -- there is maybe an occasional unexplained "fleck" of something in a frame, but all in all it came out well.



It just seems right to use a 27 year old film in a 58 year old camera!

Like Molli. I might not own any post-1980 paper except arista to proof with. If current ebay trends continue, these papers (along with the classic viny) will be part of the retirement plan.

DWThomas said:

It just seems right to use a 27 year old film in a 58 year old camera!

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Which reminds me, I have a some "120" rolls of nitrate film which seems to have been cut down from wider stock and must be at least 70 years old. I usually shoot it in a 75-year-old camera.

It curls like it was made of spring steel, and is just a trifle foggy (well, perhaps more than a trifle - maybe a bread-and-butter pudding?) , but there is a beautiful luminosity about the images.

(Yes, I have researched and properly digested all the safety information about nitrate stock, so no need to remind me )

Molli said:

With the exception of chemicals and contact proof print paper, I barely have any materials which aren't well out of date. The last thing I used was some Kodak Professional Ortho Film 10"x12" cut down for use in a loaned 4x5 camera (thank you Mick Fagan!). The paper has a handwritten note of 11th October 1974 on it. Given that it was my first use of a "real" (as opposed to DIY) large format camera and my first use of this particular film, I'm not too unhappy with the result:

My "paper inventory" picture is of every packet which has crossed my path since 2009. I've given some away, some were mostly empty and others were completely fried. Nevertheless, I've been blessed with a lot of fun and interesting paper to play with over the past six years.

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now thats what i am talking about !
thanks molli

What timing! I found this thread while testing developing some expired Tri-X in R09. A friend send me three 100' rolls, ostensibly stored at room temperature (they're in the freezer now) and dated to 2003.

There's some base fog, which was expected, but even with an EI of 1600 (which is how I usually shoot the newer Tri-X), the results are not bad. There does seem to be a lack of sharpness, compared with other negatives, and I'm wondering if this could be a function of age degradation or just a characteristic of the old-style emulsion.

symbolica
sounds like you are stoked !

try processing it in other developers too, some like expired films better than others
while i have never used it, some swear by hc110 for expired films, others something else.
i'm fond of either dektol or ansco130. the both seem to offer a crisp negative, even when it has been
trampled by the feet of time.

hav fun!
john

Definitely stoked, John! Free film is a wonderful thing. The Ansco 130 really intrigues me...I've been thinking of trying it for paper developing (using LPD right now), and it'd be cool to have a dual-purpose developer. I'll be trying Diafine next.

Cheers!

dan

jnanian said:

symbolica
sounds like you are stoked !

try processing it in other developers too, some like expired films better than others
while i have never used it, some swear by hc110 for expired films, others something else.
i'm fond of either dektol or ansco130. the both seem to offer a crisp negative, even when it has been
trampled by the feet of time.

hav fun!
john

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