Knowing expiration date before purchasing

Chuck_P · Feb 5, 2025

Is there a way to know the expiration date on paper or film before you make the purchase. I can do a search on the manufacturer's number but that only returns the product itself and the various places you can buy it. I was hoping maybe a batch number with an expiration date would be searchable but nothing, at least I'm not seeing it. I'm about to make a fairly large order of various items including paper and film and am just curious how close new to me film and paper is going to be to its expiration date. I guess I could call and ask someone but wanted to try here first. Thanks.

MattKing · Feb 5, 2025

Harman Technology used to be willing to provide manufacturing date information if you contacted them through the Contact page on the Ilford Photo website.

Chuck_P · Feb 5, 2025

MattKing said:
Harman Technology used to be willing to provide manufacturing date information if you contacted them through the Contact page on the Ilford Photo website.

What do I provide them so they know how to reference the particular boxes I may get from B&H..........the manufacturing number I get from B&H?

MattKing · Feb 5, 2025

Send them a photo of the back label with the batch number information.
Technically, I'm not sure there is an "expiration date".

Alan Edward Klein · Feb 6, 2025

I must be Missing the point if you're gonna purchase the product from B and H first, ask them what the expiration date is. I once did that on Amazon purchase for film and chose not to buy it because exploration date was only a few months.

MattKing · Feb 6, 2025

I did a quick look through the darkroom photographic paper I have handy.
With one extra-ordinary exception (see below), none of it has an expiration date on it.
None of the Ilford MGIV RC I have - both from before and after it became a product of Harman Technology.
None of the pre-receivership Ilfospeed.
None of the Agfa paper.
None of the Berger paper - although it has a manufacturing date on it.
All have batch numbers on the labels.
The exception? The only photographic paper I have that has an "Expiration" date on the label is Kodak AZO - and that date is March 1946.
AFAIK, in modern times, darkroom photographic paper doesn't come with an expiration date, so none is printed on the packaging.
If someone who has some of the newest, current Ilford Multigrade Classic RC (~Multigrade V) paper, perhaps they can check to see if things have changed for that.

reddesert · Feb 6, 2025

If you're buying from a supplier like B&H or Freestyle that is reputable and has a lot of turnover, it's going to be normal in-date, which probably means an expiration date of a couple years for BW film and maybe none for paper. Chuck it in the fridge and don't worry about it (especially for BW). Freestyle occasionally sells short-dated film at a discount, if they do it will be clearly marked as short-dated on their site.

250swb · Feb 6, 2025

Think of it not as an expiration date but a date to help with stock turnover. If B&H are sending out old stock they probably aren't doing enough business to carry on, and then the whole thing reaches a pinnacle of absurdity by needing to see their company accounts before purchase. If worried just order enough paper or film to use in the next few weeks where short dates won't matter.

Chuck_P · Feb 6, 2025

MattKing said:
Send them a photo of the back label with the batch number information.
Technically, I'm not sure there is an "expiration date".

Well, my question was geared more toward knowing an expiration date before purchasing. It was primarily more concerned with film than paper, and I should've been clearer on that in my OP, but thanks. You're right, I don't see an expiration on any of my older empty boxes of paper, I incorrectly assumed.

Alan Edward Klein said:
I must be Missing the point if you're gonna purchase the product from B and H first, ask them what the expiration date is. I once did that on Amazon purchase for film and chose not to buy it because exploration date was only a few months.

My point is merely my curiosity, and I did mention that I could call and ask but that I was checking here first. Ya just never know when there's that bit of informative data that someone on Photrio may bring to the light.

reddesert said:
If you're buying from a supplier like B&H or Freestyle that is reputable and has a lot of turnover, it's going to be normal in-date, which probably means an expiration date of a couple years for BW film and maybe none for paper. Chuck it in the fridge and don't worry about it (especially for BW). Freestyle occasionally sells short-dated film at a discount, if they do it will be clearly marked as short-dated on their site.

Thanks, I've never bought film from Freestyle and did not know that they sell short-dated film at a discount, that's good to know.

Chuck_P · Feb 9, 2025

My materials arrived yesterday and I was pleased to see expiration dates on the four boxes of TMX I ordered being September 2026 on two boxes and October 2026 on the other two boxes. I won't use all that in a year and a half, but being retired now I'll definitely use more in that period than any other year and a half period! I didn't bother with calling ahead of the order to find out the dates, it was ultimately a mute point.

Don_ih · Feb 9, 2025

Good typos in this thread. Exploration date. Mute point.

MattKing said:
The only photographic paper I have that has an "Expiration" date on the label is Kodak AZO

Same with what I have - except I have some packs that have dates into the 1970s (I have a lot of old packs of paper).

The new Ilford MG I have has no expiration date.

Expiration dates for paper don't matter as much as for film. You don't see the results until after film is developed and the photographic opportunity is long gone. With paper, if the print is fogged or spotty or otherwise weird, make a different print using different paper.

Chuck_P · Feb 9, 2025

Don_ih said:
Expiration dates for paper don't matter as much as for film.

Apparently it doesn't matter at all. I'd like to see at least a simple date of manufacture on the label.

GregY · Feb 9, 2025

Don_ih said:
Good typos in this thread. Exploration date. Mute point.

Same with what I have - except I have some packs that have dates into the 1970s (I have a lot of old packs of paper).

The new Ilford MG I have has no expiration date.

Expiration dates for paper don't matter as much as for film. You don't see the results until after film is developed and the photographic opportunity is long gone. With paper, if the print is fogged or spotty or otherwise weird, make a different print using different paper.

At $756 USD for 50 sheets of 20x24 Warmtone it sure does matter if its fogged.....

Sirius Glass · Feb 9, 2025

I ask the expiration date when I purchase film at a store. I never thought of asking for internet purchases. Great idea.

darkroommike · Feb 9, 2025

I buy film off Ebay (Gasp!) and I will not buy film that is "unboxed", still in the wrapper or canister but with the outer box gone. No way to know how old and I sometimes think some sellers deliberately throw the boxes away. (Or maybe that's just me being a cynic.) Ditto for inkjet cartridges, etc. That said, if I buy from a reputable seller I have an expectation that the product will be usable when I get it, if not, I will have words with the seller. Freestyle seems to be very good about labeling short dated film and paper for what it is. I haven't bought from B&H for years. Not since I got a shipment at school with a burst bag of developer all over the film in the same box and a "not our problem" from them.

Don_ih · Feb 9, 2025

GregY said:
At $756 USD for 50 sheets of 20x24 Warmtone it sure does matter if its fogged.

Obviously. But I'm talking more about the fact that you can always make a new print (as long as you have the negative) - you can't always take a new photo.

Don_ih · Feb 9, 2025

Chuck_P said:
Apparently it doesn't matter at all. I'd like to see at least a simple date of manufacture on the label.

I wonder how often Ilford coats paper? The demand for paper is definitely far less than that for film.

Chuck_P · Feb 9, 2025

Don_ih said:
I wonder how often Ilford coats paper? The demand for paper is definitely far less than that for film.

I've no clue..........I'm betting somebody will have some insight.

Sirius Glass · Feb 9, 2025

darkroommike said:
I buy film off Ebay (Gasp!) and I will not buy film that is "unboxed", still in the wrapper or canister but with the outer box gone. No way to know how old and I sometimes think some sellers deliberately throw the boxes away. (Or maybe that's just me being a cynic.) Ditto for inkjet cartridges, etc. That said, if I buy from a reputable seller I have an expectation that the product will be usable when I get it, if not, I will have words with the seller. Freestyle seems to be very good about labeling short dated film and paper for what it is. I haven't bought from B&H for years. Not since I got a shipment at school with a burst bag of developer all over the film in the same box and a "not our problem" from them.

I would never buy file on eBay, only for know sources such as B&H or Adorama.

runswithsizzers · Feb 9, 2025

reddesert said:
If you're buying from a supplier like B&H or Freestyle that is reputable and has a lot of turnover, it's going to be normal in-date...

At least, that is the way it is supposed to work.

I contacted Harman Technology support in October 2022 with the following question:
"Your website says my unopened Ilford Rapid Fixer should be good for "two years," and my Simplicity Ilfosol 3 sachets should be good for "18 months." But from when does that time start? I can't find any manufacturing dates or expiration dates on your products."

After I furnished Harman with the batch numbers from their packaging, it was determined that the Simplicity Ilfosol 3 had a manufacturing date of Nov 2018, so should have been good until May 2020 -- but when I bought it from B&H in Feb 2022, it was already 21 months older than its use-by-date.

Harman tech support was very helpful -- they replaced the developer at no cost to me and they gave me a couple of bottles of fixer as well, even though those were in-date when I bought them. And she said they would follow up with B&H about their inventory management.

BTW, the last Kodak brand chemistry I purchased was a bag of D-76 I got from B&H in Sept of 2024, and it is stamped with an actual Expiration date, which I much prefer to Harman's indecipherable "batch numbers."

runswithsizzers · Feb 9, 2025

Chuck_P said:
What do I provide them so they know how to reference the particular boxes I may get from B&H..........the manufacturing number I get from B&H?

MattKing said:
Send them a photo of the back label with the batch number information.
Technically, I'm not sure there is an "expiration date".

So far, all the 135 and 120 film from Harman Technology has had an actual Expiration date on it -- but for their chemistry, they use a batch number, something like, 96D012 or 14C307. From the batch number, Harman tech support can tell you the manufacturing date, but you have to call or email them.

But I can't find anything that looks like a batch number on the last box of Ilford paper I bought...?

Don_ih · Feb 9, 2025

I wonder how much paper is selling? The prices are extremely high. I don't know how many people are making prints (considering that, in this forum, with 99000 members, 10 join the print exchange and 20 join the postcard exchange, the latter which allows inkjet prints). If not much paper is selling, they may not be making it that often.

Ben Hutcherson · Feb 9, 2025

FWIW, B&H also sells short dated on occasion.

I bought a few rolls of 35mm TMX from them last month with a 3/25 expiration date. It was $7.99, vs I believe 10.99 for fresher. They listed it with the expiration in the listing.

That’s in line with what I remember from my local store back in the day, where short dated(3 months or less) was 75% and expired was half price.

I can remember 2017ish when I was first getting into 4x5 and for whatever reason 320TXP was hard to find. Adorama at the time had it in EBay and their photos showed an expiration date like a month in the future. Since they were asking basically normal price, I wrote and asked, and was given a range of expiration dates I could receive anywhere from 18 months-24 months in the future. What they sent me was 22 months out, which of course was fine with me.

Chuck_P · Feb 9, 2025

Don_ih said:
I wonder how much paper is selling? The prices are extremely high. I don't know how many people are making prints (considering that, in this forum, with 99000 members, 10 join the print exchange and 20 join the postcard exchange, the latter which allows inkjet prints). If not much paper is selling, they may not be making it that often.

I can only speak for myself, but the MSA, exhanges, etc.....just don't generally peak my interest enough to expend paper on that activity. I think it's a good thing for the forum to do but it just does not interest me. Not sure that's a good metric to gauge paper sales, but idk.

Don_ih · Feb 9, 2025

Chuck_P said:
MSA, exhanges, etc.....just don't generally peak my interest enough to expend paper on

People mostly aren't interested in other peoples' photos. I know there are a large number of people who won't join for that reason. The membership here is generally interested in photography, so it covers a random batch of people who print, don't print, want to join exchanges, don't want to - probably fairly representative of the general population of photographers. And I think the number of people who make enlargements is probably 50 - 100 times as many as the number of people who join in the exchanges.

Not many.

Knowing expiration date before purchasing

Chuck_P

MattKing

Moderator

Chuck_P

MattKing

Moderator

Alan Edward Klein

MattKing

Moderator

reddesert

250swb

Chuck_P

Chuck_P

Don_ih

Chuck_P

GregY

Sirius Glass

darkroommike

Don_ih

Don_ih

Chuck_P

Sirius Glass

runswithsizzers

runswithsizzers

Don_ih

Ben Hutcherson

Chuck_P

Don_ih

Knowing expiration date before purchasing

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency