KMZ Horizon S3 Pro: Sudden Appearance of Bright Bars in Images

[Skip Williams]

I have a Horizon 202 that exhibits the same banding from time-to-time. It will be going to Russia for a full CLA next week. It took me a while to find anyone who was competent to work on it. I have started to look for a Nobles 135U as an alternative to the Horizon and will keep both. I have decided that the Widelux is just as prone to issues as the Horizon and I’m not going there, especially with its limitation of 3 shutter speeds. The Noblex 135 and Widelux F7 are similar prices and the same guy works on both of them. I will send the Noblex for a full CLA and roller replacement when it arrives.

 

[gorbas]

Skip, can you please share with us who is repairing Horizon's in Russia? Or shall we wait until you have your camera back from service?
I did look to both Noblex and Widelux and decided that Horizon is right camera for me.

 

[Skip Williams]

I asked several people in the Russian camera community and none of them had a US-based repairman. There is one guy in the Ukraine with a long wait and someone else in the UK, but I settled on Oleg Khalyavin at okvintagecamera.com, as I received multiple, independent recommendations. I’m sure there are others capable, but I’m not willing to just start emailing every repair person in the US. I tried 4-5 US sources that I’ve used in the past and none would touch it.

If this issue can be fixed, I can really recommend the Horizon.

I also had an Xpan for several years and it was a fabulous camera. Probably should have kept it, but I sold it for what I paid to buy something else. It was just too specialized for a $3,500 camera + 2 lenses. Now that kit is $4-5,000!.

Skip

 

[gorbas]

A few times when I had issues with Horizont and Horizon my local camera repairman in Vancouver was able to take care of it even he was not specialized in it at all. But now he is getting old. There was one specialized guy in my area but he vanished before I was able to reach him.
Lets hope that Oleg is the Man?
Yes I had my trial with Xpan with 45 and 90mm too. It's amazing camera but I did not liked it at all so I sold it and bought Nikon Scan 8000.

 

[Skip Williams]

The people I spoke to are all big Russian camera dealers or collectors. They would know a competent repair guy in the US. Oleg said yes, he can do it, no problem, 1-2 weeks plus shipping time.

I had my Xpan kit 2006-7. Paid around $3,000, sold it for $2,800 with the 45, 90, and a nice Camerleder 1/2 case. I bought an Olympus E-3 DSLR as a workhorse. I got 50x the work out of the E-3 as I did the Xpan and I didn’t have an extra $3k in my pocket to be tied up in a specialist camera. I had middle-school-age children at the time and the hobby expenses were under tight control.

 

[Snowfire]

Well, some not-so-good news: the technician took one look at what would be required to fix the light seals (with the aid of an online document we found) and said, "Nope, I'm not touching this." So back to the drawing board. I hope I don't have to send the camera back to Russia for service. We will see.

 

[AgX]

To avoid a misunderstanding:
We are speaking over lightseals at the frontal drum. And the technician you asked, fears to hamper correct drum rotation by exchanging, manipulating these seals?

 

[Snowfire]

Yes, those. I think the prospect of disassembling and reconstituting the existing seals (see here for details) was a bridge too far for him--he did not trust himself to do it competently, and I am not going to try and force the issue. I have reached out to the folks at Tempe Camera and hope to hear what they have to say.

Oddly, the roll of Velvia 100 that I shot after the roll in question showed no evidence of the leak (though there was some faint banding from irregular motion.) I guess it is mostly an issue with faster film

 

[Skip Williams]

As I posted, there doesn’t seem to be very many people who are comfortable working on them. Mine is in a box right now on its way to Russia. I expect it’ll be 1-2 months until it returns. I don’t trust anyone in the US.

 

[AgX]

I was not aware of this manual yet.

Maybe before acquring any new camera one should acquire first the respective service manual.... might be a cure from GAS...

 

[Snowfire]

Well, no joy from Tempe either as they have replied:

The technician noted that the issue shown in the images at the provided link are due to the swing of the lens sticking not a light leak issue, this we would no longer be able to service and unfortunately do not have any we can recommend for this service to be performed.

I am not sure I agree based on the above discussion, but I am no one to argue with trained professionals. The quest continues...

 

[Snowfire]

And now Zacks Camera replies:

I don’t repair East German and Russian cameras.
Russians make great small arms and airplanes, lousy cameras.
I will repair Widelux type.

Not doing so well here. I am trying to get in touch with Leonid Treskunov next.

 

[daliborwalk]

I own HORIZON 202 for more than 1 year (about 20 films exposed). It was purchased after completed CLA made by http://photohelp.cz/ (official service for Mamiya, Bronica, Noblex, Horizon in the Czech republic, EU). I have vertical banding issue all the time but it appears randomly only in some frames (cca 20-70% of the total frames number). I think there are 2 causes:
a) lens rotation - uneven (non-constant) speed
b) internal reflections (light from direct light source(s))

Banding appears also in misty mornings so the cause of the uneven speed lens rotation. As the camera is all mechanical (no battery) this is determined by mechanical design (it may depends on tenths of millimetres in parts sizes/dimensions). I think there exists good (non banding) ones and bad (banding) ones pieces of HORIZON camera.

I met banding issue on all exposure times. I did not found any determinant of the cause - so the construction is the cause I suppose.

 

[europanorama]

There is only one real competent Rotapan-Camers repairer for Horizont/Horizon and Widelux 1500. Adira Kamera GmbH Basel-Markus Schenker. He saved me-met him 1988 after 9 years of struggling with Horizont light leaks. had made a protector with velcro and cam sat in case inbetween shots. Finally used Armaflex plus velvet used for 35mm cartridges(got it from agfa). but he totally exchanged the seals. dont know what he did. Yes reflexions AND uneven rotation another problem. For antireflexion he totally exchanged the drum and painted it correctly.
Had a working 202 directly from Moscov personally. After some years on nonuse we had to overhaul. 450 chf. so dont expect cheap costs. Seller told these problems can be solved in 10min. now we understand why there is no quality coming from there.
Last on S3Pro. didnt use much. Seller told i got one of the 20% which are working... last batch assembled in China.
Dont want to precise lens-and DOF-problems anymore. There are workarounds: exchanging S3Pro-lens by 202-lens to avoid Diffraction(Unsharp images) from F11/16 on.
DOF problem solved with different methods. discussed maybe here and elsewhere certainly in my forum at: rotatingpanoramiccamera.tk
Goewecke has solved the lightleak and DOF-problem too.
NB: We tried to make nodalpoint-correction-lens for distances below 5m but failed. there are for Widepan/Widelux-copy. currently on ebay from italy. Maybe someone can report.
W1500 has/had huge precision-problems and lens is decentered. upper part unsharp. we solved it. later Panon did what we suggested. Also banding problems(on both cam i had from them, first one from Adorama). i paid over 2000 chf for overhaul!!!!
There are more problems but related when shooting with Dual-cams for 3DStereo. also solved.