KMZ Horizon S3 Pro: Sudden Appearance of Bright Bars in Images

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Snowfire

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I purchased the above named camera a few months ago and have been using it without major incident until now. Recently, I decided to try the camera out for UV photography and had a ZWB1 filter disk retrofitted to one of the stock filter assemblies for the purpose. I loaded up a roll of Delta 3200 and shot it and was surprised--but in an unexpected, nasty way. Every frame, at exactly 6.5mm from the right margin, has a vertical bright bar--essentially ruining the entire roll.

bright bars.jpg

Sometimes there are other bars, as well, but these are at variable positions. The one at 6.5mm is there in every frame, however. To detail the phenomenon, it appeared when this roll was loaded in the camera; the previous roll (Kodak 160VC) manifested little or none of what is seen here. I am not aware of any particular adverse event that happened to the camera between rolls (the camera did get dropped on a floor a few weeks earlier, but seemed unaffected immediately afterwards.)
The bars do not extend beyond the edge of the frame; the offending light that caused them clearly came through the film gate and is not any sort of leak from the back of the camera.

One of my first thoughts was that perhaps some light might be leaking around my improvised filter mount on the front of the lens, but on reflection this does not make sense: such a leak if it existed would be expected to cause either uniform fogging or perhaps horizontal banding, not vertical bars at a fixed frame position. The fixed position apparently rules out sun flare as a cause also: the shots were taken at many different angles with respect to the light and direct sun was not even present in all of them.

I have examined the empty camera in hopes of uncovering some fault in the operation of the rear slit gate, but found nothing of note. When the lens turret is parked either in the cocked or discharged position, nothing is exposed at the rear except a blank metal drum--there is nothing at the position where the bars appear, so I tend to doubt that these artifacts are being created between exposures.

This leaves the possibility that the bars are created during the actual exposure. Swing-lens cameras are notorious for problems with the lens rotation mechanism, and presumably KMZ products are not immune; but if that is what this is, I am somewhat dumbfounded by the suddenness and severity of the issue, as well as disappointed that it ruined my first UV experiment with this camera. My questions for other KMZ owners, past or present, are:

!) Does this look like anything you have seen?

2) Is abrupt onset of such a problem usual?

3) Is it possible that something about the way an individual roll of film was loaded could temporarily elicit this behavior?

4) Is this camera beyond salvaging, or would some service such as a simple CLA be helpful?
 

Jim Blomfield

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To me this looks like banding. The rotation of the lens is not smooth and it hesitates slightly in different places of its arc. I have had this. Sometimes a bit of dirt gets in the mechanism. I have even traced it back, I believe, to times when the tension on the film varies when loading a different roll. Sometimes it can be relieved by fiddling with the film advance lever and relieving tension slightly.
 

BradS

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^^^ What Jim said is exactly correct. The swing lens is not moving smoothly. I had the same thing happen on a Widelux. A visit to a technician for routine maintenance service fixed the issue.
 

reddesert

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It looks a little like rotation banding and a little like an unwanted reflection off the filter. I would say that it's banding, but banding is typically very uniform top to bottom and the bright bar in your images isn't quite uniform - perhaps that's some kind of interaction between banding and the UV brightness of the scene, dunno.

Is there a possibility that you noticed it because you've been using one set of shutter speeds, and with your new filter and film you used the other set of shutter speeds? My Horizon 202 has a less obvious single band where it glitches near one end, but only on the slow speeds. There's no band on the fast speeds.
 

Huss

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Banding is why I gave up on the clockwork pano swinger cameras like the Horizons and Wideluxes. I use the Noblex 135 which utilizes an electric motor to spin the drums. No banding ever.
 

Kino

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If you don't have the problem without the filter, there is a good chance something on the filter is hitting something OR the mass of the filter is upsetting the rotation of the assembly.

If the filter is heavy glass, it might be a problem.
 
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Snowfire

Snowfire

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I think variation in lens panning speed is the most likely explanation here--but these were shot in the fast clockwork mode, and one would think that severe speed variations would be audible as irregular pitch, and I have been unable to hear any aberration, which is a bit surprising. Most of my shooting has been in fast mode--I have only used the slow mode a couple of times so far.

KMZ filters are tiny and clip into a mostly closed cavity in front of the lens. The modified filter is neither much heavier nor much larger than the stock filters that come with the camera (it is pretty similar.) I see no way that it could mechanically impede the lens rotation.

I would think that reflection off the filter would at worst result in uniform fogging or horizontal banding. I see no way that it could result in discrete vertical artifacts in the image.

I have been racking my brains to think of a way that stray light from filter mount leakage could somehow combine with poorly controlled lens rotation to amplify such faults; but I have thought of nothing very convincing. I have attempted to shine a flashlight through the lens to see if I could see any leakage from the back and I have seen nothing obvious.

The Noblex products look like fine cameras, but they are very expensive, and I do not even know if their lenses would transmit useful amounts of UV. The Horizon cost about $200; a Noblex would be five times that at least--beyond the range of a whim purchase. (One of the best-transmitting UV lenses belongs to the humble Lomography Spinner, by the way--sometimes cheaper can actually be better.)

There is another roll of slide film I shot after this one (using no filter.) It will be interesting to see if it shows similar defects.

My next step is, I think, to send this camera in for service; that should make some difference if I am at all correct in my guesses.
 
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AgX

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On the net I found similar banding at photos taken with a Horizon 202. And these artefacts obviously came into existance by exposure from the rear.
Thus before sending off the camera put a cheap colour negative film in and expose the film regularly in strong daylight or similar. After processing that will show you from which side the artefact exposure originates and maybe will save you from sending off the camera for repair.
 

Kino

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Yes, as AgX suggests, you can do a light seal test with some cheap film OR I would load a short roll of b&w on a bulk loader and do this test.
 

gorbas

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To me it looks like "classic" Horizon 202 light leak from seals on either side of the drum. You see it now because you used much faster film than before.
How long time took you between frames? Did you keep the camera in the bag or somewhere on your body between shots?
Load test film (preferably Delta 3200 as before) and make cover from empty photo paper plastic bag for the front opening of the body for a few frames and try to expose it to the light from different sides and make good notes.
My only serious light leak was from brand "new" 202 who was not used for very long time. Sometimes just exercising the camera can restore proper order of the fiber's in the seal.
Good luck!
 
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Snowfire

Snowfire

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As I said before, leaks from the back of the camera would not be expected to stop at the edge of the frame.

The drum light seal idea is intriguing, but would the fogging not be expected to be centered at the edge of the film gate rather than 6.5mm over? Or could it be occurring in the cocking step rather than during exposure? I may raise this issue with the technician. I made no effort to bag the camera between exposures, as I saw no a priori justification for doing so.
 

AgX

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Well, I forgot about that rebate thing... Sorry

Here is the rear of the camera. I see no way how light from the rear could spare the rebates. Let alone with a sharp edge, being the same as the film gate edge.
upload_2021-9-17_19-19-14.png




Thus back again to frontal exposure through the film gate...
 
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gorbas

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The drum light seal idea is intriguing, but would the fogging not be expected to be centered at the edge of the film gate rather than 6.5mm over? Or could it be occurring in the cocking step rather than during exposure? I may raise this issue with the technician. I made no effort to bag the camera between exposures, as I saw no a priori justification for doing so.

That 6.5mm is absolutely ok. It's in the place where it should be. You can see it here but from other side light seal. Cocking or during exposure? You figure it out by covering the opening and playing around with it. After thousands of rolls I never seen banding with 202. I only saw it a few times with older all metal Horizont.
IMG_9457.jpg
 
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Snowfire

Snowfire

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That 6.5mm is absolutely ok. It's in the place where it should be. You can see it here but from other side light seal. Cocking or during exposure? You figure it out by covering the opening and playing around with it. After thousands of rolls I never seen banding with 202. I only saw it a few times with older all metal Horizont.
View attachment 285652
In that case, we are on to something, and the clockwork is not the primary problem at all. This camera was purchased as NOS and may have sat on a shelf for as long as 15 years before use, so seals could easily go bad. The fogging would occur primarily while the camera is at rest, and secondarily during cocking, and it would not consist of image-forming light (consistent with what is seen here.) It also explains why fast film shows the problem much worse than slower films. Thank you. I have alerted the technician to this issue (I took the camera in today.) With luck this problem can be solved.
 

gorbas

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Recently I bought brand NEW - NOS Horizon S3 pro. I was the first to open that box since 2012 when it left the factory and it had some serious problems with uneven spacing between frames.
It somehow went away on its own after 4-5 rolls.
Banding on older Horizont was caused by grains of sand from my son shoes when I was carrying him on my shoulders with the camera hanging around my neck. H202 inner mechanism is much better shielded than old one.
We learn something every day.
 
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AgX

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It left the factory and it had some serious problems with uneven spacing between frames.
It somehow went away on its own after 4-5 rolls.
Maybe it even was not the film transport, but the end stop of the swinging lens.
 

Huss

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I think variation in lens panning speed is the most likely explanation here--but these were shot in the fast clockwork mode, and one would think that severe speed variations would be audible as irregular pitch, and I have been unable to hear any aberration, which is a bit surprising. Most of my shooting has been in fast mode--I have only used the slow mode a couple of times so far.

My Horizons and Wideluxes banded at the fastest speeds (as well as the others). You cannot hear it happen. It sounds the same as always.

Interestingly, I recently had a Horizon 202 which was perfect, then started to band after I let it sit for about a year. I noticed that if I exercised it i.e dry fired it for a bit, the banding was eliminated.
So these cameras do not like to sit unused for a while.

My old Lomo Perfekt (Horizon U500) did develop light leaks which were brighter, but it was a long time ago. Even if your camera does have light leaks, it definitely also has banding!
 

Huss

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Hi gorbas. I do not have any examples as I deleted them! They were spoiled photos so there was no reason for me to keep them. But doing s google search should provide you with plenty of examples!
 

AgX

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My Horizons and Wideluxes banded at the fastest speeds (as well as the others). You cannot hear it happen. It sounds the same as always.

But there is only one drum speed , maybe two, with swing lens cameras, but basically the shutter speed is controlled by the slit with.
Am I right?

And thus any drum-seal leaking should occur at all speeds, as long as the drum speed is not changed. And I would have found even the latter far fatched, but reports here made me think differently.

But as an exposure from a leaking drum-seal basically would be constant, image exposure though be dependant on slit and aperture, the light leak exposure might go under at certain exposure settings
 
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gorbas

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But there is only one drum speed , maybe two, with swing lens cameras, but basically the shutter speed is controlled by the slit with.
Am I right?
Yes, you are right. Since Horizon 202, there are 2 speeds of the drum, slow and fast, then exposures are controlled by the width of the slit.
Leaking drum seal exposure depends of how long interval are between exposures.
From my experiences with a few 202 cameras drum seal light leak can happen from lack of usage or from overuse.
 

cayenne

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My Horizons and Wideluxes banded at the fastest speeds (as well as the others). You cannot hear it happen. It sounds the same as always.

Interestingly, I recently had a Horizon 202 which was perfect, then started to band after I let it sit for about a year. I noticed that if I exercised it i.e dry fired it for a bit, the banding was eliminated.
So these cameras do not like to sit unused for a while.

My old Lomo Perfekt (Horizon U500) did develop light leaks which were brighter, but it was a long time ago. Even if your camera does have light leaks, it definitely also has banding!
Yep..I have the old metal HorizonT camera and it worked great on first shots....I then hit a few with that banding and it dawned on me, that I took those shots on the "unmarked" 250 shutter speed that is on the dial but unmarked.

Once I got off that, things seemed to get back to normal.
 
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Snowfire

Snowfire

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One would expect rotational banding to be more defined the narrower the slit is. If the slit is wide small, brief changes in speed will average out more, whereas that cannot happen if it is narrow.

That said, the problem I observed did not vary much with slit width (="shutter" speed.)
 
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