Kindly help debug my negative (again)

[RoboRepublic]

What on earth is causing these circular patterns at the top of the frame?

I use Jobo 1540 tanks. This example here is TMY 400 ISO400 HC110 for 13 minutes at 68 degrees. I do a 1 minute anti-halation pre-wash. 2 gentle inversions at the top of the minute.

My notes say that this particular roll was in the *bottom* reel. Both rolls in the bottom and top exhibit this problem. This problem occurs in about 4/5s of all rolls I develop.

4th frame in a 6 frame sequence (6x12 camera).

Thanks!

 

[AgX]

Debugging a negative would necessitate an insectiside.

 

[foc]

From what I can gather, you are developing 120 film, is that correct?
From a quick look at your image, I would think that the marks are from air bubbles.

Can you upload an image of your negative, please (the same as the positive image you have uploaded)
Something like this.

 

[AgX]

Yes, air bubbles are the most likely cause.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Follow Kodak's agitation instructions and the problem should go away. Rap the tank firmly several times after filling to dislodge the bubbles. 5 inversions in 5 seconds every 30 seconds for agitation.

When starting out in photography I followed the instructions to the letter and things turned out OK. Then I decided I knew better and pursued every developing protocol under the sun and things generally went downhill. Then I went back to following the instructions and things started turning out OK again.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Air bells, you need to give the tank one or a few hard raps when each chemical is poured into the tank.

 

[gone]

What Sirius said. I bonk the tank now and then during all of the developing and fixing, no need to during the wash. I'm surprised I haven't cracked the tank, but I do try to mitigate that by knocking the bottom of the tank onto a piece of wood on the counter that has a few washcloths around it.

For a while I was having a spate of developing issues and finally went back to straining the chemicals through a couple of coffee filters. That fixed things. It doesn't take much time, and eliminates a big variable.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

JOBO reels are prone to this with 120 film and inversion processing. Bubbles get trapped between the film and the edge of the reel and there is no where for them to go. The best way to eliminate the bubbles is to use a drop or two of Edwal LFN in the developer. Prewetting will also help. When you fill the tank, fill it at an angle. It also will help to use aggressive agitation at first. The design of the JOBO 1500 system doesn't allow the reels to move on the stalk. Other plastic systems are like that too but the reel designs are different. You rarely see bubbles on metal reels because they easily move around in the tank which dislodges any bubbles that form. Whacking the tank with the JOBO doesn't work all that well. I'm an almost 30 year JOBO user so I just know from experience. You can whack all you want but the bubbles are trapped in there.

I just noticed you use HC110. You might not be able to use LFN with that. I've had issues with Pyrocat mixed in Propylene Glycol. The combination of the Glycol and the LFN turns the developer into a bubble bath. LFN works great with every other developer I've tried though.

Keep in mind the JOBO system was designed for roller processing. I think the design of the reels isn't the greatest if you don't process that way. With roller processing the developer is always moving through the reels dislodging any bubbles that form. Not so with inversion processing.

Hope that helps you.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Air bells, you need to give the tank one or a few hard raps when each chemical is poured into the tank.

When I thunk the tank I thunk it on a block of rubber.

I think that Jobo tanks were designed for their rotary processors, not inversion.

 

[MattKing]

After the "thumps" recommended above, you might consider giving the film its first 30 seconds of agitation by rolling the tank continuously by hand on a flat surface or a roller agitator (which is what I do).

 

[bernard_L]

Been there. For decades, have been knocking the tank and all went well. Then, since maybe 2 years, started to have these air bells. Despite the knocking. A change in the water distribution maybe (I use de-mineralized water only for the final Photo-Flo rinse).
Following advice on Photrio, added 50cc to the dev volume, i.e. 500-->550cc for 120 film in a Paterson reel (YMMV). This cured the problem.
Also once I followed advice by (IIRC) Ian Grant: add a couple drops (less than for final rinse) Photo-Flo in the dev to promote wetting of the film surface. It worked, bu I feel uneasy about adding to the dev something that... promotes the formation of bubbles.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Been there. For decades, have been knocking the tank and all went well. Then, since maybe 2 years, started to have these air bells. Despite the knocking. A change in the water distribution maybe (I use de-mineralized water only for the final Photo-Flo rinse).
Following advice on Photrio, added 50cc to the dev volume, i.e. 500-->550cc for 120 film in a Paterson reel (YMMV). This cured the problem.
Also once I followed advice by (IIRC) Ian Grant: add a couple drops (less than for final rinse) Photo-Flo in the dev to promote wetting of the film surface. It worked, bu I feel uneasy about adding to the dev something that... promotes the formation of bubbles.

In any type of tank, adding 50 cc can cure air bells.

 

[Bill Burk]

Paterson tank? Used the measure of chemicals embossed on the bottom? @Sirius Glass is right - fill that tank up.

Also you should rap the tank so hard that you think you might break it. (sincere)

You won’t break it because they are tough.

(snarky) But if you do, replace it with steel tank and reels.

 

[NB23]

Paterson tank? Used the measure of chemicals embossed on the bottom? @Sirius Glass is right - fill that tank up.

Also you should rap the tank so hard that you think you might break it. (sincere)

You won’t break it because they are tough.

(snarky) But if you do, replace it with steel tank and reels.

I broke one, once. It split in two...

 

[AgX]

Been there. For decades, have been knocking the tank and all went well. Then, since maybe 2 years, started to have these air bells. Despite the knocking.

Seems enigmatic. The only idea that comes to my mind is change of developer composition. I do not see how a change from tap to demineralized water could have caused this.

 

[bernard_L]

I do not see how a change from tap to demineralized water could have caused this.

I use de-mineralized water only for the final Photo-Flo rinse

which means I use tap water for everything else, including mixing the developer. Whether that is Officially Approved may be debatable (the Kodak instructions for mixing clearly show a faucet), but is outside the scope of this thread.

 

[AgX]

The industry standard for mixing developer and anything else is tap water.

 

[foc]

I have used tap water for mixing all my chemicals, both privately and when I worked professionally and I never had one film with air bubbles. I followed a few simple steps and it seemed to work for me.

• Stir your mixing water in the graduated cylinder to dislodge any air bubbles in the water. Some taps/faucets can cause water to froth.
• Mix more than the recommended tank volume. If the tank says 280ml then mix 300ml.
• Pour in the developer quickly and gently tap the tank. I never used pre-wash
• I have used "the wine swirl" form of agitation for the last 4 decades and it worked for me.

Hope this might be of some help.

 

[Bill Burk]

I broke one, once. It split in two...

Good riddance.

What did you replace it with?

 

[NB23]

Good riddance.

What did you replace it with?

Stainless Steel reels