Kilfitt Makro Kilar E f3.5 lens strangeness

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

I had the good fortune today to stumble onto an M42 mount version of the 40mm Kilfitt Makro Kilar E f3.5 lens. Didn't ever expect to find such a lens at a thrift store, but I did and am quite happy to own it.

Haven’t had time to shoot with it, but I did however immediately mount it on my Pentax Spotmatic to check function and it seems to be in good working order.

Strangely enough, the lens has what appears to be a homemade spacer washer cut out of semi transparent plastic seated on the M42 threads. When I screw it onto the Spotmatic, the focus reference mark tightens up to approximately the 10 o’clock position as you face the camera. When I remove the spacer and remount the lens, the focus reference mark then tightens at approximately the 2 o’clock position. Very strange.

The threads engage smoothly, so there is doubt it is an M42 mount, but the out of kilter focus reference mark puzzles me.

Any possible insights as to what might cause this? I’ve never had an M42 mount lens tighten up this far out of alignment from the traditional 12:00 Noon position. Were there custom focus shims for each camera sold with the lens?

shutterfinger · Oct 18, 2020

1. the flange to film plane distance is not the same for all cameras hence the spacer.
2. does the Kilar start at the same point as a Spotmatic lens? I'm thinking the thread starting position may be different.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

shutterfinger said:
1. the flange to film plane distance is not the same for all cameras hence the spacer.
2. does the Kilar start at the same point as a Spotmatic lens? I'm thinking the thread starting position may be different.

It appears the Kilar starts at a different point; about the distance of the discrepency. The Super Takumar lens appears to start just about where the focus reference is scribed on the lens barrel, while the Kilar is displaced by around 1/4 of a turn around the barrel.

I have read several contemporary articles on the lens (Keppler) and he makes no mention of a spacer.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

OK, shocker, the mirror hits the rear element at infinity. Somethings not right here. I have to wonder if it's missing a mount adapter and that the mounting thread for the adapter just happens to be M42 compatible.

I had only placed it on the camera body, but had never attempted to fire the camera. Luckly it didn't mark the mirror, but it certainly halted it until I backed the helicoil out toward macro.

Paul Howell · Oct 18, 2020

Was the lens from a Robot? If no mirror, and film to flange distance might be different. A Robot passed though my hands in the 70s, didn't trust the spring wind film advance so I traded it along with my F when I bought a F2.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

Who knows? It was a thrift store find. The guy just knew it was a lens and that the camera it came with was "sold several weeks ago".

Going to see if I can scrounge up a set of macro tubes in M42 to see if can displace it into a useful shooting range.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

Paul Howell said:
Was the lens from a Robot?

You may have guessed right. I took it outside and could not obtain infinity focus even with the mount fully tightened, so a set of extension tubes would be even worse.
Disappointing to say the least!

shutterfinger · Oct 18, 2020

I would mount the lens on a block of some type, set it to infinity focus, position it at a window pointing at a distant object with the curtains covering all but the lens opening then hold a piece of white cardboard or similar behind the lens until the distant object comes into focus.
Measure from the rear of the mount to the image board to find the flange to image plane for this lens and adapt to your camera if possible.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

shutterfinger said:
I would mount the lens on a block of some type, set it to infinity focus, position it at a window pointing at a distant object with the curtains covering all but the lens opening then hold a piece of white cardboard or similar behind the lens until the distant object comes into focus.
Measure from the rear of the mount to the image board to find the flange to image plane for this lens and adapt to your camera if possible.

I'll try that next weekend; sun's down now. Thanks!

AgX · Oct 18, 2020

shutterfinger said:
1. the flange to film plane distance is not the same for all cameras hence the spacer.

To my understanding all M42 SLRs took over the Praktica (actually Praktiflex) specifications of M42x1 45,5mm.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

Several sources say that mounts were available in "Alpa, Praktina, Mecaflex, Rectaflex, and Pentacon (M42)" for this lens. No Robot specificaiton; which makes sense in a way. It's obviously designed for a SLR and reflex focusing...

All the mounts I can find visually look integrated into the rear, not simply screwed-on.

Stranger and stranger...

reddesert · Oct 18, 2020

Pictures of your lens may help.

It would be strange that it hits the mirror (elements too far back) and that it can't achieve infinity focus (elements don't go far enough back). Try focusing on some object at a close distance - say 1m or 3 feet - and noting what the lens distance scale reads. From that it's possible to estimate how far off the flange distance is.

It's possible that your Spotmatic has a larger mirror than the Pentacon it was originally designed for. Here's another thought: could some part of the lens be fouling the stop-down pusher at the bottom of the Spotmatic lens mount? It's a preset lens, right? The camera it was originally designed for may not have had an auto aperture.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

Possible on the mirror size.
Doubt it on the aperture actuator, as the mirror was released when I turned the helicoid and retracted the rear lens element.

Other information I found:
https://camerapedia.fandom.com/wiki/42mm_screw_lenses#Kilfitt

"The only Kilfitt lens with a fixed 42mm screw mount was the 40mm Makro-Kilar. The Makro-Kilar D focused to 1:1 and the Makro-Kilar E to 1:2.

4cm f/3.5 Makro-Kilar D, chrome, s/n 211-XXXX
4cm f/3.5 Makro-Kilar E, chrome, s/n 209-XXXX
4cm f/2.8 Makro-Kilar D, chrome, then black, s/n 245-XXXX
4cm f/2.8 Makro-Kilar E, chrome, then black, s/n 246-XXXX"

shutterfinger · Oct 18, 2020

When my TL Electro died I shopped around and ended up with a Spotmatic body. The Yashion 50mm lens blocked the mirror from returning on the Sptmatic until I unscrewed the lens about 45°. The rear barrel section of the Yashica lens was thicker than the camera was designed for. I filed down the barrel at the mirror contact point and painted it flat black to correct the problem.

Kino · Oct 18, 2020

Mounted it on my Kalimar SR 200 (Rebadged Kiev 12) and the mirror clears BUT now the focus witness mark is down at the 4:00 o'clock position (facing camera front); even more off.

I give for tonight.

Dan Fromm · Oct 18, 2020

See https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00778/00778.pdf p. 2 for a list of the mount adapters Kilfitt supplied for Makro-Kilars.

dynachrome · Oct 18, 2020

A few things- over time there were many versions of the M42 mount. Some odd ones included the Fujica ST, Mamiya SX and Olympus FTL. The Fujica and Mamiya mounts, like the Pentax ES, had full aperture metering. The Olympus FTL locked when tge lens was fully screwed on. Of the others, their index marks for infinity focus were in many different positions relative to TDC. That's why the aperture plate on the M42 cameras us so wide. It could hit the pin at many different points. As has been mentioned, mirror length and protruding rear elements also caused problems. There just wasn't much standardization. Sort of like plumbing fixtures.
Many years ago I got a 40mm Macro Kilar D from Ken Hansen. It was also in M42 mount. I used an adapter to fit it to my Konica Autoreflex T2. The experience was not good. In the first place there was no auto diaphragm operating so chasing bugs was out of the question. The second problem was that in the D version of the lens, changing the aperture would almost always move the focusing ring. They were concentric. The last problem was that the edges of the frame just weren't that sharp, even with the lens well closed down. I eventually got a 55mm f/3.5 Konica Hexanon, which was much better. If I want to use a standard focal length macro lens on one of my Spotmatics, I just attach a 50mm f/4 SMC Takumar and I am a happy person. The Kilar was returned to Ken Hansen. Would I want another one? No, I wouldn't.

ph · Oct 20, 2020

The early "made in Liechtenstein" versions of the short makro kilar had a cutout in the rear lens-element fastening ring in order not to obstruct the mirrorswhen set at infinity.

p.

Kilfitt Makro Kilar E f3.5 lens strangeness

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