Kiev 88CM and Vivitar 283 Flash

Federico Toro · May 5, 2019

Hi all!

I’ve recently been blessed with a Kiev 88CM and would love to use my Vivitar 283 flash with it. However, I am unsure if it is safe to do so given the possibility that the flash has a high voltage discharge that may harm the camera (I have been unable to test the voltage). Is the flash safe to use with the camera when placed directly on the hot shoe? If not, what are some alternatives? Do wireless triggers work?

Thank you!

locutus · May 5, 2019

As the Kiev 88 is a all mechanical camera it should be fine.

Kino · May 5, 2019

Yeah, no need to worry about flash voltages on a Kiev 88 unless you are pumping 120VAC through it! Only the operator would notice...

macfred · May 5, 2019

Kino said:
... Only the operator would notice...

Not those tough guys who are used to operate the Kiev cameras ...

jvo · May 5, 2019

just dumb luck... i've used my 283 on every camera i've ever owned... never even thought to wonder if it would be a problem!!!!

now most were more mechanical than electronic in nature, but i've never had a failure... luck and ignorance on my part.

RalphLambrecht · May 5, 2019

locutus said:
As the Kiev 88 is a all mechanical camera it should be fine.

unfortunately not.he contacts will eventually be oversparked and wear out. Use this high-voltage trigger flash only with a wireless trigger. they will work fine!

removed account4 · May 5, 2019

Federico Toro said:
Hi all!

I’ve recently been blessed with a Kiev 88CM and would love to use my Vivitar 283 flash with it. However, I am unsure if it is safe to do so given the possibility that the flash has a high voltage discharge that may harm the camera (I have been unable to test the voltage). Is the flash safe to use with the camera when placed directly on the hot shoe? If not, what are some alternatives? Do wireless triggers work?

Thank you!

Lucky Duck!
fun camera
I think it is a COLD SHOE ( I have an ARAX 60 .. it has a COLD SHOE )
so ... even though it has a flash mount you might go anywhere or be connected
to the shutter, so you might need to plug a pc cord into the body of the camera..

Don't forget not to get the body and lens out of sync !

John

RalphLambrecht · May 5, 2019

jnantz said:
Lucky Duck!
fun camera
I think it is a COLD SHOE ( I have an ARAX 60 .. it has a COLD SHOE )
so ... even though it has a flash mount you might go anywhere or be connected
to the shutter, so you might need to plug a pc cord into the body of the camera..

Don't forget not to get the body and lens out of sync !

John

you are correct. Of course you can't hurt the cold shoe with trigger voltage but, somewhere you need to connect the flash to the shutter and that's where the danger is. get a wireless trigger to be safe;they are cheap.

removed account4 · May 5, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
you are correct. Of course you can't hurt the cold shoe with trigger voltage but, somewhere you need to connect the flash to the shutter and that's where the danger is. get a wireless trigger to be safe;they are cheap.

OP, i got a cactus 4 for something like $40 shipped from asia, shipping took about 1 week and was $8USD ..
but, your kiev has no electronics to fry
as far as I know, trigger voltage won't bother a manual camera, only stuff with
modern electronics like a digital camera or some sort of modern 2000's nikon slr.
it is like using a wireless trigger on a speed graphic or rolleicord or
Hasselblad 1600F ( what the Kiev 88 is a clone of ), fun toy to buy, but might not really be necessary.
I don't think they worried much about trigger voltage pre 2001, definately not in 1948-53
that said the cactus is cheap as dirt and works well, might as well buy prophylacticly

MattKing · May 5, 2019

A 283 flash doesn't necessarily have a high trigger voltage.
But even if it does, higher trigger voltages don't cause the same sort of damage to mechanical flash synch cameras.
Where a high trigger voltage may "fry" the circuits on an electronic camera, they will wear or degrade over time those circuits on a mechanical flash synch camera.
Regular maintenance - including cleaning and/or replacing contacts - can help prevent problems with the mechanical camera. Not so the electronic ones.

AgX · May 5, 2019

Kino said:
Yeah, no need to worry about flash voltages on a Kiev 88 unless you are pumping 120VAC through it! Only the operator would notice...

The difference between mains voltage and sync voltage is that the sync-current is minimal and extremely limited in duration, whereas at the mains the current is limited by the 10-16A fuses and infinite in time.

Also all sync-voltages are DC (which is less harmful to the heart)

Sync-voltages of up to 300V DC are not uncommon.

Vivitar 283 once has been measured by someone even as 390V.

cooltouch · May 7, 2019

The Vivitar 283 was the go-to flash for many pros for years. As much as the 283 would have gotten used by your average pro shooter, surely some of these folks would have noticed something going on. But apparently not, cuz they just used and used and used them.

AgX · May 7, 2019

I is very rare here and I never saw it used by professionals. That market was nearly completely covered with Metz 45s.

RalphLambrecht · May 7, 2019

MattKing said:
A 283 flash doesn't necessarily have a high trigger voltage.
But even if it does, higher trigger voltages don't cause the same sort of damage to mechanical flash synch cameras.
Where a high trigger voltage may "fry" the circuits on an electronic camera, they will wear or degrade over time those circuits on a mechanical flash synch camera.
Regular maintenance - including cleaning and/or replacing contacts - can help prevent problems with the mechanical camera. Not so the electronic ones.

I have two 283s and both have a trigger voltage around200V.that can hurt the camera even if it has only a cold shoe or is fully mechanically because, somewhere in the camera-to -flash connection the sync is triggered. sparks at that connection will wear the contacts out;had it happen on a Hasselblad 500CM and its kit lens. get a wireless trigger to be safe.

AgX · May 9, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
I have two 283s and both have a trigger voltage around200V.that can hurt the camera even if it has only a cold shoe or is fully mechanically because, somewhere in the camera-to -flash connection the sync is triggered. sparks at that connection will wear the contacts out;had it happen on a Hasselblad 500CM and its kit lens. get a wireless trigger to be safe.

As said, voltages up to 300V DC were standard in the past.

Arcing takes place already at very low voltages at switch opening. In general this is the more critical situation, which does not take place at all at sync switches.

At switch closing arcing takes place at higher voltages. So yes, the higher sync voltages are a higher stress on contacts, but as said that was standard.
To be on the safer side one always may apply a respective adapter.

Nokton48 · May 9, 2019

I did it with my Kiev 88 at the time, with 283, although not extensively. I would tend to think a lot of use would cook the shutter contacts in the shutter. Nothing else in he camera to be damaged, with the exception of the entire camera, with a bad film backs. I had a Kiev88 that took Hasselblad Backs (it was made by Hartblei) and the backs ran as smooth as with Hasselblad.

Shouldn't be a problem with light use.

John Koehrer · May 9, 2019

Considering the great number of 283's used in the past, by amateurs and pros exposures numbering
thousands or hundreds of thousands I doubt there's much to be worried about.

RalphLambrecht · May 9, 2019

macfred said:
Not those tough guys who are used to operate the Kiev cameras ...

Yeah; they don't eat honey; they chew bees.

StepheKoontz · May 9, 2019

The current not the voltage is what fries mechanical switches. These flashes were made for mechanical cameras and if their trigger voltage was frying flash contacts, SOMEWHERE it would be reported. I've never heard of this being an issue anywhere.

AgX · May 10, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
The current not the voltage is what fries mechanical switches. These flashes were made for mechanical cameras and if their trigger voltage was frying flash contacts, SOMEWHERE it would be reported. I've never heard of this being an issue anywhere.

Not quite. Even if the current as such can be handled, arcing can be an additional (thermic) load. And depending on circumstance arcing is voltage dependant, as hinted at above.

StepheKoontz · May 10, 2019

Arcing happens at any voltage as contacts are opened. At lower voltages the amp load is higher for the same load, which is much more likely to burn up contacts. Again, if this was a mechanical camera destroying problem some of you are painting, these flashes would never have become as popular as they did. This is the perfect example of difference between "theoretical problems" and what actually happens out in real world use.

And having used Kiev gear in the past, other parts of that camera are going to die WAY before the flash contacts are burned up from higher voltage flash use lol. Those contacts will likely outlast 3-4 shutters.

AgX · May 10, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
Arcing happens at any voltage as contacts are opened.

But in sync switches the source likely is run out before the switch opens again, any case of arcing thuse limited to the closing phase.

John Koehrer · May 10, 2019

This is the perfect example of difference between "theoretical problems" and what actually happens out in real world use.

+ 1
Like many things photographic. It's funny how the term "you can't do that" has been proven wrong so many times.

AgX · May 18, 2019

StepheKoontz said:
The current not the voltage is what fries mechanical switches. These flashes were made for mechanical cameras and if their trigger voltage was frying flash contacts, SOMEWHERE it would be reported. I've never heard of this being an issue anywhere.

Well, our fellow Pentaxpete reported to have burnt the sync-switch contacts of his Pentax MX due to huge press-photography (thus flash) use.

cooltouch · May 18, 2019

Hmm . . . I'll bet your average pro would have considered that to be acceptable wear. I wonder how many years of this heavy use caused the erosion?

Kiev 88CM and Vivitar 283 Flash

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