Kiev 88

Dinis Figueira · Feb 10, 2017

Hi guy's,

I've looked into this camera. This seems the cheapest 6x6 modular camera on the market of hasselblad style cameras. It's not something that I might buy now (I'm looking to trade my cameras either for a Rolleicord Vb or a Mamiya 645) but I still wanted to know about it.

Is this camera really bad? I get people that have them for years and had no problems and people that on the few first rolls, the camera breaks down on everything. Is a camera that must be entirely avoided and one should opt for the Arax choices or it's a matter of tricking a few things to get it working correctly?

Thank you all.

PS: For Mamiya user that might wander here, could you tell me by PM how's the experience between the prism and WLF? Thanks!

Paul Howell · Feb 10, 2017

The rebuilt Kievs seems to have better reputation, I was given a new old stock with 3 lens. Dreadful, shutter was off, the 120mm lens had a broken aperture, it had light leaks, overlapping frames, and flared. the lens were quite sharp. If you decide to go sown that road I recommend a rebuilt model.

Berri · Feb 10, 2017

Do not buy used! buy refurbished, possibly with pentacon six mount; you can find very good carl zeiss jena lenses at reasonable prices!

Dali · Feb 10, 2017

Dinis Figueira said:
PS: For Mamiya user that might wander here, could you tell me by PM how's the experience between the prism and WLF? Thanks!

How do you use a Mamiya 645 with a WLF???

mweintraub · Feb 10, 2017

I traded some gear for an Kiev 88CM that was practically like new. Worked great, but hated the dreaded steps YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW (like a hassy) or you might lock the body. I'm keeping my Bronica SQ-A, so much easier to use.

Dinis Figueira · Feb 10, 2017

Dali said:
How do you use a Mamiya 645 with a WLF???

It's possible, no?

mweintraub said:
I traded some gear for an Kiev 88CM that was practically like new. Worked great, but hated the dreaded steps YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW (like a hassy) or you might lock the body. I'm keeping my Bronica SQ-A, so much easier to use.

What dreaded steps? :O

Dali · Feb 10, 2017

How do you shoot a vertical frame?

chriscrawfordphoto · Feb 10, 2017

Dinis Figueira said:
It's possible, no?

What dreaded steps? :O

The Kiev 88 shutter MUST be cocked BEFORE you change the shutter speeds. If you turn the shutter speed dial with the body not wound, it will damage the shutter and lock up the camera, requiring an expensive repair. I would not use one; I know that someday I would forget to wind the camera before changing the shutter speed.

summicron1 · Feb 10, 2017

Dinis Figueira said:
It's possible, no?

What dreaded steps? :O

there are a lot -- never ever ever ever change the shutter speed BEFORE winding the film or you destroy the camera is one. There's the dance with winding the camera AND film back before mounting the back and/or firing the shutter. And so on.

My own experience with them is that they are very capable of self-destructing even sitting on a table in an otherwise empty room. Buy yourself a Rolleicord. You will be MUCH happier.

Dinis Figueira · Feb 10, 2017

Dali said:
How do you shoot a vertical frame?

I am aware of 'that' - hence the Kiev88 idea at the utmost, but cocking the shutter before changing the shutter speed... nop... It won't work for me..

Berri · Feb 10, 2017

Dinis Figueira said:
I am aware of 'that' - hence the Kiev88 idea at the utmost, but cocking the shutter before changing the shutter speed... nop... It won't work for me..

well if you don't cock the shutter you won't see through the finder so why would you want to change the speed anyway? When I used that camera it came quite naturally too me; take a picture, wind the film up/cock the shutter and get ready for the next frame

Nick Merritt · Feb 10, 2017

Dali said:
How do you shoot a vertical frame?

You need a prism finder for that. Mamiya made nice ones, both metered and unmetered.

Nick Merritt · Feb 10, 2017

Berri said:
well if you don't cock the shutter you won't see through the finder so why would you want to change the speed anyway? When I used that camera it came quite naturally too me; take a picture, wind the film up/cock the shutter and get ready for the next frame

Yes, I agree. It's pretty intuitive. As you said, why would you bother to change speeds before you can see through the lens? In any event, a dark finder is a good reminder to not change speeds. The Hasselblads have similar interlocks, which actually are even easier to mess up. (You may not destroy the camera, but you are out of action until you can get it unjammed.)

I have an 88CM I got from a guy here on APUG and it's been great. As was stated, the Pentacon mount gives you access to the Zeiss lenses, a major bonus. The Soviet lenses are very decent, however. I think if you get a CM, and especially an ARAX-ified one, you will have little to worry about.

Dali · Feb 10, 2017

Nick Merritt said:
You need a prism finder for that. Mamiya made nice ones, both metered and unmetered.

Exactly!

Cholentpot · Feb 10, 2017

Look into a Bronica S2a or any of the Zensa line. They're pretty cheap and well built.

mweintraub · Feb 10, 2017

chriscrawfordphoto said:
The Kiev 88 shutter MUST be cocked BEFORE you change the shutter speeds. If you turn the shutter speed dial with the body not wound, it will damage the shutter and lock up the camera, requiring an expensive repair. I would not use one; I know that someday I would forget to wind the camera before changing the shutter speed.

I thought you had to change the speeds before you cocked the shutter...

There's also the have to get white dots on both the film back and body before mounting otherwise you'll tear things up. (Hassy thing too)

Pioneer · Feb 10, 2017

Not being able to adjust shutter speed before cocking the camera was a show stopper for me. I frequently stroll around watching things and adjusting apertures and shutter speeds as I go. This way when I get ready to shoot I am pretty close to the exposure I want. This has become almost completely subconscious so I know I would mess it up.

I picked up an Arax 60 (Pentax 67 style camera from Kiev) brand new from Araxfoto instead, and am very happy. I have had no reliability problems so far though I have only owned it a bit over a year. I have a P6 lens mount and love being able to use inexpensive Zeiss lenses with the camera. The only downside for me is not being able to have extra film backs available.

Noisegate · Feb 10, 2017

Even if you got the camera for free, it would still be costly. Best used for a paperweight or defensive weapon.

itsdoable · Feb 10, 2017

I still have, and occasionally shoot a Kiev-88. Actually, I own two, a really old one, and a Hartblei that was modified to accept Hasselblad backs. Both have been trouble free (wait while I go fine some wood to knock on...)

Typically, if you find one that is working, then it's probably fine. Time is a good filter.

These are finicky machines, and as such, can take nice photos for people who like working with such finicky devices. If you are typically in a rush, are the type that wants things to work quickly and automatically, then this is definitely not your thing.

The main issue I had was with the Kiev magazines, the wind clutch sprag spring would break (a bit of a pain to repair) and the spacing was tight, and sometimes variable. Some care with loading and winding was required.

Never had problems with the shutter speed/wind mechanism. On both of mine, you cannot change the shutter speed without winding it first. There is a lock that prevents you from lifting the knob to change the shutter speed. If you try, you end up just winding/cocking the shutter. Those that you can change the shutter with the body uncocked already have a broken mechanism.

I bought my first one to use the 30mm f/3.5 lens, the equivalent Hasselblad lens was 10x more than the Kiev + lens + back. I got the Hartblei because it was inexpensive, took the 30mm f/3.5 and Hasselblad backs (which are also a bit fiddly, but much more reliable). I use them much less these days because I found a 30mm f/3.5 modified for Hassleblad 200 series. But it is still satisfying to coax a nice picture out of these old cameras, and there are some nice (cheap) lenses for it.

Dinis Figueira · Feb 10, 2017

Well, the problem for me regarding the shutter speed is that I mostly don't change aperture in many situations. I'm always around the "best" aperture on each lens and I only change shutter speed so when I see that there is more light or less light I change the shutter speed regarding if the shutter is cocked because I am not seeing through the viewfinder - I only do It after to compose.

But the optimal thing to do regarding this "weapon" is get it modified... which in the end costs more than a bronica :/

MattKing · Feb 10, 2017

Nick Merritt said:
You need a prism finder for that. Mamiya made nice ones, both metered and unmetered.

Unless you don't mind standing beside a tripod mounted camera raised to eye height, and looking at an upside down image.

yessammassey · Feb 10, 2017

I have no direct expericene with the 88, but know someone who does.

I've tried three different 60s (Arax, Hartblei, and the original Arsenal), and each one had some kind of shutter capping or mistiming. Always darker on one side or the other when using 1/1000 and 1/500, to varying degrees. One had it so bad that the capping was even apparent at 1/250.

The 88 owner had the same kind of thing with the faster speeds on theirs. And they had the metal shutter upgrade.

They're very nice to use, especially with a metered finder, and the lenses are a steal for what you get. Great value. But watch out for the camera bodies. I may have just been especially unlucky, but when I contacted the seller (one of the big rebuilders) about the capping on the first 60 I got, they essentially said that it's an issue that all the Kiev cameras suffer from to some extent. An Eastern European expat camera repairman in my city who I brought one of the 60s to told me pretty much the same thing.

piu58 · Feb 11, 2017

I use a Kiev 50 (not 88) for many years without any problems. Slightly bulky, of course.

Fixcinater · Feb 11, 2017

I bought a "for parts/repair" Kiev6C and a fungus-y Sonnar 180.

Even with less stuff to break, it's a far cry from a Mamiya 645 1000S in haptics. The prism is OK on the Mamiya, the Kiev is worse and crops quite a bit of image.

Berri · Feb 11, 2017

I am a happy user of a pentacon six tl, maybe you would consider this body as well? It feels nice holding it and the lenses are good. I took some really nice photos with this camera. But if you really like the style of a kiev then go for a refurbished body, or you will encounter various issues.

Kiev 88

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