Kiev 6c and thinner modern films

[brainmonster]

I'm about to buy a Kiev 6c in addition to a soviet Iskra a la the old adage "Two is one and one is none" in case one doesn't work/stops working. The seller of the 6c assured me that while the film advance works, it is calibrated for Soviet films, which are thicker, but told me that this can be adjusted for.

I've heard that putting a piece of gaffer's tape on the film leader helps with this problem and makes the frames space out further, but wondering if this adjustment (for the Kiev 60) will work on the 6C and if this applies to the thinner modern film problem:

https://kievaholic.com/kiev60kalibration.html

Anyone know the answer? This seems like a fairly easy adjustment.

I don't mind doing simple adjustments but if the fix for the thinner film problem is over my head, someone please let me if you have experience with this matter.

Thanks!

 

[Donald Qualls]

I have a 1948 Zeiss Super Ikonta that spaces the frames by adjusting how far it rotates the takeup -- same as that Kiev 6c. It works fine with modern film.

Best I can suggest is to run a roll through it and see what the spacing looks like.

 

[Jojje]

When I had a (working) Kiev-60, I used to add som thickness to the take up spool with a suitably sized self sticking label - or two, the kind you can print address on. That way the spacing was more convenient, still I always got 13 exposures per roll. Duct tape probably too thick.

 

[Donald Qualls]

still I always got 13 exposures per roll.

My Kodak Reflex II will put 13 on a roll, if I set the counter back by one -- and it uses a friction roller to gauge the actual length of film past the gate. I think modern film is just enough longer at the tail than it was 70-80 years ago to have room for a 13th frame, if you have a counter that can space close.

 

[xya]

If the spacing is too tight on your camera, there is an easy trick to compensate to a certain degree: When you open a new roll, it's held together by a paper strip around the roll. Open it cautiously and leave a part of this strip attached to the backing paper. Insert the paper strip into the take-up spool and wind. The beginnig of the backing paper will follow. Wind, until it's firmly engaged. Your spool core is now a little bit thicker than usual. This might solve your problem, just have a try.

 

[Larry H-L]

Frame spacing on Kiev 60 and Pentacon cameras also seems to be helped by never fully advancing the winding lever when loading film. Instead, use small ratcheting half strokes on the lever as you start to wind it on the take up spool. Close the back, again use short half strokes, until just before #1 on the counter, then a full advance stroke. Try it, it may help a bit.

 

[shutterfinger]

How to solve the spacing problem depends on how the film advance works. A clutch system is designed to slip a little when the drag becomes too much. The solution is to service the clutch or adjust it. Geared film advance will only move a certain amount then stop. A dirty gear train will not turn freely causing the gear lash to accumulate resulting in rough film advance and poor spacing. A clean, smooth operating gear advance system based on thicker film base can be improved by putting 2 to 3 layers of backing paper or equivalent on the take up roller or the center of the take up spool but not both. Backing paper is .004 inch (4mil) thick. The camera make, wear, and service condition will determine if you need 2 or 3 layers.

 

[thuggins]

A search of history here will yield a lot of information. There are two basic types of 120 frame counters - "turn counters" and "length counters". Turn counters rely on film/paper thickness. This varies by manufacturer, with Kodak being the thickest now with .004 "paper" (in quotes as it is not paper, it is plastic). Fuji and Ilford both run thinner. I recently ran a roll of Ektachrome thru the roll film back on my Plaubel (Rada?). This is a "turn counter" and the spacing was perfect. I piece of 2" wide masking tape from the beginning of the roll to the Start arrow will solve overlaps if they occur with "turn counters".


"Length counters:, like the Medalist should never have a problem.

 

[Donald Qualls]

"Length counters:, like the Medalist should never have a problem.

Additional examples: my Zeiss-Ikon Super Ikonta B (532/16) is a turn counter, with compensation in the stop cam for spool diameter buildup. Built in 1948 and modified by me to give 12 on a roll instead of the original 11, it gives very acceptable spacing with modern films (the last roll I processed from it was .EDU Ultra, same as Fomapan). An RB67 is a length counter (the first roller the film backing runs on after leaving the supply spool drives the stop/counter mechanism), as is my Kodak Reflex II (roller with drive teeth that ride in the rebate drives the stop/counter).

 

[beemermark]

I've no problem with my 6C. Usually I use Kodak T-max which is on the thick side but I've also used EDU Ultrapro (freestyle) which is thin. The important thing is to fully advance the film with one smooth stroke. Don't try 2 or 3 strokes of the advance lever. Before trying all the methods listed above just try it with a film you ordinarily use and see how it works out.