Kiev 4am Slop

klop · Nov 26, 2014

I have a Kiev 4am that I had gotten as a gift.... The shutter adjustment has enough play in it that I am never confident that I am in the speed that I selected or think I selected... Is this a problem associated with this model?

summicron1 · Nov 26, 2014

Kievs make great paper weights. You can throw them at rats, but it's hard to aim well because of their odd aerodynamics.

No, seriously, Russian cameras in general are the sorts of cameras that you see people putting Youtube videos up of the "things I have to do to get this thing to take pictures" nature. Play in the shutter setting is the least of your worries. I watched one on the Kiev 6 C that said it was great except the film advance is wonky and the lenses don't work, for example.

These Kiev 4 cameras, which are Russian copies of the German Contax, are AT LEAST 50 years old, and have not aged gracefully. This guy likes them -- Dead Link Removed -- but my experience has been iffy, at best. Russian/Ukranian quality control was not up to German standards and the materials were not always selected for quality. Russians used to look for products made on Wednesday because the further away from the weekend you were (in either direction) the less likelihood it was assembled by someone who was drunk/hungover.

In the happy event you find one that seems to work properly, they are not half-bad shooters because the lens designs are copies of Zeiss designs. I had a Kiev 88 once (copy of Hasselblad 1000) that made three trips back for warranty service in the first month I owned it -- the last trip was one-way with a refund demand, which they had to admit was proper.

So, whoever gave this to you -- thank them with a smile, run a roll of film through it just for yux, then put it on the shelf, to the admiration of all.

Pioneer · Nov 26, 2014

Oh, I don't know that they are all that bad. They certainly do not have the build quality of the Contax, but I find they work quite well anyway. And they are much, much less expensive than the Contax II itself.

I have bought and sold several and they all worked pretty well. None of them cost me over $40. The one I have now is very reliable and I am planning on packing it along on a couple of winter hikes I have planned. I want to see if its Ukrainian heritage keeps it working strong in the cold.

The other positive is that I have no fear of opening it up to try and fix something should that turn out to be necessary.

My advice, if it works, use it. If you just cannot get along with the shutter setting then put it on the classifieds and I'm pretty sure someone will be happy to make you an offer. Of course the other option is the one I took. Do a little reading, ask a few questions, then open up the hood and take a try at being a camera mechanic. You may find you like it.

Xmas · Nov 26, 2014

summicron1 said:
Kievs make great paper weights. You can throw them at rats, but it's hard to aim well because of their odd aerodynamics.

No, seriously, Russian cameras in general are the sorts of cameras that you see people putting Youtube videos up of the "things I have to do to get this thing to take pictures" nature. Play in the shutter setting is the least of your worries. I watched one on the Kiev 6 C that said it was great except the film advance is wonky and the lenses don't work, for example.

These Kiev 4 cameras, which are Russian copies of the German Contax, are AT LEAST 50 years old, and have not aged gracefully. This guy likes them -- Dead Link Removed -- but my experience has been iffy, at best. Russian/Ukranian quality control was not up to German standards and the materials were not always selected for quality. Russians used to look for products made on Wednesday because the further away from the weekend you were (in either direction) the less likelihood it was assembled by someone who was drunk/hungover.

In the happy event you find one that seems to work properly, they are not half-bad shooters because the lens designs are copies of Zeiss designs. I had a Kiev 88 once (copy of Hasselblad 1000) that made three trips back for warranty service in the first month I owned it -- the last trip was one-way with a refund demand, which they had to admit was proper.

So, whoever gave this to you -- thank them with a smile, run a roll of film through it just for yux, then put it on the shelf, to the admiration of all.

An AM is only 35 years old it's kit lens is a copy of Mandlers type 4 Summicron.
Donno about the OP problem aeons since I used mine but it had no real problems in any way.
At Krusk '43 summer the last battle that the USSR did not have tank superiority in numbers one of their little lady tank commanders got a hat trick of Tiger I heavies in her little toy T34 medium

benjiboy · Nov 26, 2014

Klop is complaining about slop ?

summicron1 · Nov 26, 2014

Xmas said:
An AM is only 35 years old it's kit lens is a copy of Mandlers type 4 Summicron.
Donno about the OP problem aeons since I used mine but it had no real problems in any way.
At Krusk '43 summer the last battle that the USSR did not have tank superiority in numbers one of their little lady tank commanders got a hat trick of Tiger I heavies in her little toy T34 medium

well, the T34 didn't have to be delicate, and wasn't built to last a long time. Just long enough to make it to the Rhine.

Some of the Kievs -- the earlier ones especially -- can be better because they were often made using German parts, or at least were made on machines made in Germany and run by workers trained by Germans. As years wore on, though, the workers got old and retired, the machines got old and tolerances got sloppy, and production numbers, not quality, were all the management cared about.

Not a formula for a machine to last the ages. If you are serious about photography, a Contax is not that much more expensive.

tokam · Nov 27, 2014

summicron1 said:
well, the T34 didn't have to be delicate, and wasn't built to last a long time. Just long enough to make it to the Rhine.

That's being a little hard on the T34. At it's introduction it had sloping armour and a relatively low profile and a diesel motor. (unlike the Sherman 'Zippos'.) It was also up-gunned during the war and was still an effective tank at war's end when it reached Berlin.

benjiboy · Nov 27, 2014

The German tanks were superb but were mechanically very complex so much so that if they sustained battle damage they often had to to be sent back to Germany to be repaired , a Tiger tank weighed about 62 tons and many Russian bridges wouldn't take their weight. The T34 had sloping armour, Christie suspension (that although an American invention was never adopted by the U.S. Army) that allowed it to move quickly over rough ground, had wider tracks than German tanks to enable it not to sink in snow or muddy ground and generally was much more suitable for the conditions found in Russia. Between the wars the Soviets had looked at all the worlds current ideas in tank design and incorporated the best them into the T34, but I digress ...

mr rusty · Nov 27, 2014

Handy site for things Kiev. http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html I took my kiev 4 apart and gave the shutter a bit of lubrication and it works better than it did. Haven't used it in a little while, but it does work just fine. I have some original spec shutter tapes tucked away that I bought from OK (link on the is site) just in case

Ko.Fe. · Nov 27, 2014

4AM is worst from Kievs. And Kievs are the worst FSU RFs in terms of DIY, for my taste.
Too much gears, and light baffles to deal with.
If it is the only problem you have with yours, take it as luck.

Currently testing Zorki after complete DIY rehaul

Knjy · Nov 28, 2014

The shutter speeds are set by the wind on knob locating in a series of cutouts in the brass ring beneath it, they either locate or not, I cannot imagine the brass slits have enlarged so the fault could be with the knob. Remove the 3 side crews that hold the shutter release assembly and you will see three screws that hold the knob to the plate beneath it - these may be loose and therefore the cause of the problem. If not: Take these out and lift the shutter wind knob and you will see the brass ring with the cutouts and also be able to inspect the locating pin attached to the bottom of the knob. As you will work out, all of these have to be in good shape for the selection to work. A new knob can be culled from a dead Kiev, the brass ring is a major piece of work and suggest you reserve the camera for Summicron1's first suggestion. Having the wind knob removed will improve the aerodynamics slightly.

Xmas · Nov 28, 2014

Knjy said:
The shutter speeds are set by the wind on knob locating in a series of cutouts in the brass ring beneath it, they either locate or not, I cannot imagine the brass slits have enlarged so the fault could be with the knob. Remove the 3 side crews that hold the shutter release assembly and you will see three screws that hold the knob to the plate beneath it - these may be loose and therefore the cause of the problem. If not: Take these out and lift the shutter wind knob and you will see the brass ring with the cutouts and also be able to inspect the locating pin attached to the bottom of the knob. As you will work out, all of these have to be in good shape for the selection to work. A new knob can be culled from a dead Kiev, the brass ring is a major piece of work and suggest you reserve the camera for Summicron1's first suggestion. Having the wind knob removed will improve the aerodynamics slightly.

Could you please confirm that you are describing the 4AM as I thought it was different from the Contax II (and earlier Kiev) shutter dials. I don't use my 4am preferring the earlier cameras but neither have I stripped it. I use its double Gauss lens for the Gauss signature.

You can get cheap parts bodies from the Ukraine if you need repairs. or people will send you zip bag parts cameras.

Knjy · Dec 19, 2014

I missed this reply for some reason. I imagine the inner workings are the same for all Kievs once you are under the shutter speed/wind on dial. The wind on knob is different but think it dismantles the same or similar way.

Kiev 4am Slop

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