Kiev 4

A few more thoughts...

Hello Forum.

I should have mentioned my impressions of the Kiev 4a in the previous post.

I think it is a very solid, funky, "fun to use occasionally" camera. It takes great pictures with the Jupiter 8M Sonnar copy lens. Rick Oleson says that a good sample will last indefinitely long. The only thing that goes wrong with a good working sample is the need of new ribbons every 10 or more years in normal use.

Its limitations are several, but for the price I can take them:
1. That wee little peephole excuse for a viewfinder is one.
2. The "Contax Hold" that one needs to master in order to keep from blocking the rangefinder window.
3. The finish is a bit rough. The chrome is flaking off my lens.
4. The film spacing is uneven, but at least it does not overlap in my sample.
5. I had to make my own film spool. No big deal.
6. Adjusting the shutter speeds is a bit goofy.
7. I wish the lens would not latch at infinity. That was evidently a desirable feature long ago.

Here are some things I like about the Kiev 4a:
1. Mass. It is stable in hand holding.
2. I like the funky "sneezing" sound of the shutter at slower speeds. And the "thunk" of higher ones.
3. The Jupiter 8M 50mm f/2 Sonnar copy lens.
4. Lens interchangeability.
5. Availability of affordable FSU optics.
6. The trick "Time" feature. Set camera on bulb, press shutter release and rotate it with your finger 90 degrees. It will latch on. Later, when you want the shutter to close, rotate the shutter button back 90 degrees and it will close. Cool.
7. No batteries, no menus, no software surprises, no electronics surprises.
8. Long baseline rangefinder. Very accurate.
9. I like the fingerwheel for fine focusing.
10. The support sites, like Rick Oleson's have helped me keep it going, even after breaking a ribbon in 2002.
11. Cheap. It was dirt cheap. For ten cents on the dollar, it takes images that most folks cannot tell that they were not taken with my Leica M3.
12. I can take it anywhere, and can use it in almost any light.
13. History and Contax heritage. This camera is essentially a German 1936 design, captured by the Russians, and renamed, built, and "refined" in the Ukraine.
14. I just like it. So I shoot with it occasionally.

I can imagine that with this camera one can experience imaging as it must have been for a serious amateur photographer hiking about in Bavaria just before World War II.

Happy day.

hi

The finish is better in the pre'72 cameras, the pre'56 have different character of chrome from the Contax but are still really nice. There is a price premium.

The earlier lenses may perform better but Ive not detected a difference, a good J8 or J8M is better then contemporary leitz lenses against the light, both in good condition.

The infinity latch allows easier mounting of inner baynet lenses.

The production lines were a war reparation, the UK made Leica clones for a long while as well, could have made VW beatles if the UK car manufacturers had allowed.

Noel

Hello Noel.

Would you, by chance, know what the M in Jupiter 8M signifies? How is it different from a Jupiter 8? I have asked this question many times but I have never learned the answer to this question.

As to your point about cars made in England, I once owned a Triumph TR8. It was a lot of fun to drive when it worked. Unfortunately, it was in the shop just about each month, almost always owing to some electrical malfunction. Everything that failed had the name Lucas on it. Every time I got into the driver's seat two things went through my mind: 1. Will this thing crank? 2. If I get to where I'm going, will I get home? I've never had that problem with German, American, or Japanese vehicles. After that, I bought English clothes and dinnerware, but not cars.

T42 said:

Hello Noel.

Would you, by chance, know what the M in Jupiter 8M signifies? How is it different from a Jupiter 8? I have asked this question many times but I have never learned the answer to this question.

Click to expand...

I have read that it signifies a model with click stops on the aperture ring, something that earlier models lacked. I am not sure, but camerapedia says so.

http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Jupiter-8

Originally Posted by Krzys
Is anyone else here loving their Kiev but tempted to hack out the plastic around the squinty viewfinder port so they can see the rangefinder patch easily, then just use an axillary finder for framing? Would this work. I hate how tiny the port is for the viewfinder.

Krzys,how are you holding this camera? if you try and hold with your right hand as you would most others your finger is gonna obscure the rangfinder, yes it is a small veiw finder but a lot easier to use with the `contax grip'
try this and i think you will find it a lot easier.[ just google contax grip, i dont think i can describe faithfully in text. cheers

Jupiter 8M on Kiev 4A

Erik Petersson said:

I have read that it signifies a model with click stops on the aperture ring, something that earlier models lacked. I am not sure, but camerapedia says so.

http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Jupiter-8

Click to expand...

Thanks, Eric!

Now I know that the 8M introduced click stops. My 1970 Jupiter 8M is chrome on brass, not aluminum or stainless steel as discussed in the link. The chrome is flaking off a bit, but the mechanicals are good. I like the lens very much. The only thing that is a minor irritant is that it rotates with focusing, hence the necessity of its having markings on both sides of the lens barrel.

Without framelines, how does one use this camera in conjunction with any non-50mm lens? Is an accessory viewfinder required? And if so, wouldn't this be a step backwards to the days of separate RF/VF windows? Or is it possible to estimate accurately the lens' vision with experience?

ah the Triumph TR8: a perfect example of why government shouldn't run industry.
Lucas was known in Great Britain as "The Prince of Darkness". The British Leica copy, made by Reid and Sigrist in Leicester was a wonderful machine with Taylor Taylor-Hobson lenses, but was taxed out of existence by a Labour government ( One sir Stafford Cripps saw photography as a luxury.... Of Sir S. Cripps, Sir W.S. Churchill once said: "There, but for the Grace of God , goes God).
The first Leica Summicron M 50mm (collapsible) used glass from the Chance factory in Birmingham, not tremendously far from Lucas.

David

I'm with you Dan. The fingger focus wheel always puts my finger in front of the RF window. Also the lens locks at infinity, and you have to release it at the focus wheel. I have a Kiev 4, and the first "test" roll netted me about 6 keepers. The Jupiter that came with it is a wonderful lens.

quote
Without framelines, how does one use this camera in conjunction with any non-50mm lens? Is an accessory viewfinder required? And if so, wouldn't this be a step backwards to the days of separate RF/VF windows? Or is it possible to estimate accurately the lens' vision with experience?

yes an aux veiwfinder needed, everything is possible with experience but like exposure-why guess? get a meter. I use a simple Petrie aux veiwfinder with 35mm/85mm lines, there is also the turrent veiwfinder you will find on bay.

quote
I'm with you Dan. The fingger focus wheel always puts my finger in front of the RF window. Also the lens locks at infinity, and you have to release it at the focus wheel. I have a Kiev 4, and the first "test" roll netted me about 6 keepers. The Jupiter that came with it is a wonderful lens.

Use contax grip-no problem, the focus wheel lock can easily be sorted with a match on the lense or a square rubber bush with hole in center made to fit the lock release on the lens barrel - just have a look at the lens and you will see what i mean

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79088

For an idea of what to do with the infinity lock have a look at above, scroll down to `petronious' and click on thumb. regards

pakeha said:

quote
Without framelines, how does one use this camera in conjunction with any non-50mm lens? Is an accessory viewfinder required?

yes an aux veiwfinder needed, everything is possible with experience...

Click to expand...

True, a viewfinder may seem like yesterday's solution, but if you think about it that way you may as well use an SLR.

You can steal a viewfinder from many of the Japanese fixed focus tele-wide adapter kits and it works quite well. Or you can ask your local one-hour joint for a bag full of used disposable cameras. Tear the viewfinder out of one of those and make a foot for it. They are usually real honest to goodness Newtonian finders. Plastic, but who cares for the finder.

pakeha said:

quote
I'm with you Dan. The fingger focus wheel always puts my finger in front of the RF window. Also the lens locks at infinity, and you have to release it at the focus wheel. I have a Kiev 4, and the first "test" roll netted me about 6 keepers. The Jupiter that came with it is a wonderful lens.

Use contax grip-no problem...

Click to expand...

Agreed. Learning the 'Contax Grip' is pretty easy and makes these little jewels a please to use. Give it a try.

MB

with the standard lens the contax grip also allows one to photograph one handed, useful if cycling (but use a neck strap incase lol)

T42 said:

Hello Noel.
Would you, by chance, know what the M in Jupiter 8M signifies? How is it different from a Jupiter 8?.

Click to expand...

As well as click stops in later lenses (8M as mentioned above) I think they altered the optical design to make it easier to manufacture.

Not noticed any detectable difference in performance, between pristine 8 and 8M lenses, the post WWII Sonnars seem to be better, on poster sized enlargements, but then Zeiss charged a great deal more, for a Contax IIa lens.

The Helous 103 on late Kievs, looks terrible but performs real well.

If your brick wall photos on a slow film and heavy tripod look ok, I'd not worry.

When you snap a ribbon, you need to buy another Kiev or learn how to sew neatly.

Noel

Someonenameddavid said:

ah the Triumph TR8: a perfect example of why government shouldn't run industry.
Lucas was known in Great Britain as "The Prince of Darkness". The British Leica copy, made by Reid and Sigrist in Leicester was a wonderful machine with Taylor Taylor-Hobson lenses, but was taxed out of existence by a Labour government ( One sir Stafford Cripps saw photography as a luxury.... Of Sir S. Cripps, Sir W.S. Churchill once said: "There, but for the Grace of God , goes God).
The first Leica Summicron M 50mm (collapsible) used glass from the Chance factory in Birmingham, not tremendously far from Lucas.

David

Click to expand...

Hello David !!

Wow. If I had known that the TR-8 had been a government car, I would have bought a Nissan instead. I always said that the only thing wrong with that car was that it was not made in Japan.

Thanks for the Churchill quote. He had some marvelous quips. I'll remember that one.

I have one of those Leitz 50mm f2 Summicrons, mine made in '53, I think. Blue coating. I had no idea it was English glass.

Most of the British glass I have bought since has said Bass, Newcastle, or Samuel Smith on the label.

Erik Petersson said:

I own such a camera as well, which I like a lot. However, it has the quirk that after the 24th picture, the frames start to overlap.
The range finder is the best focus aid I have tried. And yes, you can focus with the lens as well, of course.

Click to expand...

Interesting. This is the first reference to this problem I have been able to find. I am having this problem on my Kiev 4a. It is in the shop now, so we will see if the repairman can figure out the problem. Did you ever figure out why yours did that?

I started with 36 exposure rolls; always started failing after 30 exposures. I thought- try 24 exposure- problems started as I approached 24! In the case of 36 exposure, I even tore a roll near the end.

Other that that (and hopefully it will get addressed), It is a very nice camera to shoot.

markjwyatt said:

Interesting. This is the first reference to this problem I have been able to find. I am having this problem on my Kiev 4a. It is in the shop now, so we will see if the repairman can figure out the problem. Did you ever figure out why yours did that?

I started with 36 exposure rolls; always started failing after 30 exposures. I thought- try 24 exposure- problems started as I approached 24! In the case of 36 exposure, I even tore a roll near the end.

Other that that (and hopefully it will get addressed), It is a very nice camera to shoot.

Click to expand...

My Kiev 3 isnt too bad if I keep the spool tight using the winding knob, also gets better more I use it. I usually get a couple of butt up negs that dont overlap. The last roll I developed had surprisingly even gaps, well mostly....small price to pay for a cool camera.

awty said:

My Kiev 3 isnt too bad if I keep the spool tight using the winding knob, also gets better more I use it. I usually get a couple of butt up negs that dont overlap. The last roll I developed had surprisingly even gaps, well mostly....small price to pay for a cool camera.

Click to expand...

Sounds like this is a fairly common problem for Kiev Contax based rangefinders. Are you shooting 36 exposures (it's about all you can find these days).

markjwyatt said:

Sounds like this is a fairly common problem for Kiev Contax based rangefinders. Are you shooting 36 exposures (it's about all you can find these days).

Click to expand...

There abouts, I use b&w and roll my own.

Frames on my Kiev 4 are pretty evenly spaced, maybe not as consistent as a Nikon, but no overlap and a proper gap between images. Using the camera again yesterday reminded me of one operational quirk, the lens throw is long. Combined with the very wide rangefinder base, this makes for accurate focusing, but the short throw of the focus wheel makes for lots of turning with the middle finger. Not a snap into focus camera, especially with infinity lock.