Kiev 4 - Tips and advices

[Rumbo181]

Good evening

I'v bought this morning a Kiev 4 in "El Rastro" -Madrid's flea market. Esthetic condition is "dusty", as usual, but I know for experience that a thorough external and lens cleaning will transform its look.

When you buy cameras en "El Rastro" there is no guarantee at all, but at least you can "touch and handle" and get a first impression. So I decided to bet in it.

Camera body
Serial number:
No rust, neither scratches in the camera body
Leatherette not excessively worn.
Cosmetically promising after cleaning.
Lens
Jupiter 8 50mm/2
Clear, without scratch, fog, haze or fungus.
Lens focusing barrel moves smoothly, and the f-stop selector as well.
Viewfinder clear and coherent with the distances engraved in the lens.
Lightmeter
Selenium type, has only a faint life, but maybe when properly cleaned it would improve.
Shutter
It works. Responsive to every speed including B. I'm taking for granted at least one step slower in each speed -1/120 being actually 1/60, for instance- just to be on the safe side.
The "garage style" curtains seems to be ok so far.
Self-timer works correctly.

But I don't know anything about light leakage or whether it has problems with film advance. Next step is to shoot a test roll and we'll see.

Meanwhile, ¿do you have any tip or advice to share? I've heard that this old soviet cameras are a little bit tricky, for instance with shutter speed changes.

Any shared advice or experience will be welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

Angel Luis

 

[Rumbo181]

Serial number of my Kiev 4 is of 1963.

Acurate viewfinder, with very coherent ranges. The problem is that it is too small, and a glasses killer as well, so I put a protection of black foam -like the one used in light seals- around it in order to not scratch my own glasses.

Uncommon way of setting speeds. At least I wasn't used to it.
1) Wound the shutter with the advance knob.
2) Pull up the advance knob
3) Then you can rotate it to point the speed you want.
4) The know shall be turned clockwise. In this way you can reach lower speeds and you feel some resistance against turning the knob. This is OK. If you want higher speeds turn it counter-clockwise pass the mark of your desired speed, and make the final fraction of turn clockwise, always finishing with some resistance in the knob.

Well, I shot a b/w test roll and the result was:

Good acutance, very sharp. Pleasant looking.
No light leaks.
Small overlap in a couple of frames.

Today I bought another Kiev 4. This one a 4a of 1972.

After cleaning their dust layers I did some comparison.

Distances read when focusing the same objects are almost equal in every camera, so I think that the viewfinder calibration is good and has not been lost with time.

But the most surprising result was when I measured shutter speeds with the slow-motion camera of my i-phone. Not only both cameras yield the same result but it seems that the speeds are pretty o.k., so my supposition that 1/120 is actually 1/60 is not well founded, actually 1/120 is actually 1/120. So I underexposed 1 stop in my test roll.

I think that engineering of the cameras is as sound as keeping its accuracy despite -posible- not very good manufacture and 50-60 years of time.

 

[Bushcat]

Yes, it's definitely a glasses killer :-(

Can you do me a favor by looking at the takeup spool? I'd like to know if you think spring 3 is present on either or both of your bodies.

 

[Rumbo181]

Sorry @Bushcat, but I'm not confortable with the idea of messing inside this cameras if it's not really needed.

In 1972 version only the fork that is under the speed knob is held by one screw.

In 1963 version both forks are held with screws.

The clutch for the film advance in the 1972 camera seems more firm that the one of 1963, that's logic.

I hope it helps.

 

[Mr Flibble]

A well-maintained Kiev should still work very well.

The slats of the shutter will rarely develop light leaks themselves. If there is one it will generally be because something else in the shutter mechanism is failing.
Another possible source of a light leak is through the viewfinder/rangefinder optics in the top of the housing if the paper and felt seals have deteriorated or been removed.
This can allow light to get into the film chamber around the edges of the shutter curtain rollers (when direct light strikes the finder at a particular angle).

Concerning the issue with frame spacing on the film: clean the crud, dirt, dried grease from under the fork part that goes into the take-up spool (part No.4 in Bushcat's photo). The clutch must not be too loose or too tight.

If you do not want to disassemble the camera at all, you can apply a little pressure to the rewind knob with a finger when you advance the film, keeping the film a little more taut as you wind.


Concerning setting the shutter speed, I think the manual specifically states that you should set the speed first, before winding the film/charging the shutter.
(The Contax II manual specifically says it doesn't matter if you set the speed before or after winding, but the Kiev 4 manual says it does)

 

[Flighter]

Concerning setting the shutter speed, I think the manual specifically states that you should set the speed first, before winding the film/charging the shutter.
(The Contax II manual specifically says it doesn't matter if you set the speed before or after winding, but the Kiev 4 manual says it does)

The manual I have (which covers the 4 and 4A) recommends that you "set the exposure time after shutter cocking"

 

[Mr Flibble]

I stand corrected

 

[Bushcat]

Sorry @Bushcat, but I'm not confortable with the idea of messing inside this cameras if it's not really needed.

No problem, I just wanted you to look at it, to see if that screw appears to have a spring underneath it. No disassembly.

 

[Bushcat]

Concerning the issue with frame spacing on the film: clean the crud, dirt, dried grease from under the fork part that goes into the take-up spool (part No.4 in Bushcat's photo). The clutch must not be too loose or too tight.

Since you seem to know this item, can you tell me if there should be a spring pressing up against part 4? I don't have it, film takeup jams after around 18 frames, and I suspect that, without the spring, the assembly is not acting like a clutch.

 

[Mr Flibble]

Since you seem to know this item, can you tell me if there should be a spring pressing up against part 4? I don't have it, film takeup jams after around 18 frames, and I suspect that, without the spring, the assembly is not acting like a clutch.

Like on the contax II there should be a spring sitting above part 4 on the the winding stem. It should press part 4 down onto the central screw (part1) and possible shims.

Found this on USSRPhoto:

Richard Haw's images on his Contax repair page shows this same configuration.


And yes, without the spring there, the take-up spool will slip easily and the film will not wind securely around the take-up spool leading to possible jams.

 

[Bushcat]

I see my diagram shows the spring on the other side, but in either case I don't have that spring. Time to check out some compression springs!

 

[Mr Flibble]

I see that your original diagram is of the rewind side according to the Russian text.. "перемотка" is Rewind