Kiev-4 lens

SalveSlog · Aug 19, 2017

I aquired a Kiev-4 that seems to be in good condition. Even the lightmeter is quite in agreement with others. Fast speeds are slow. It's my first focalplane shutter rangefinder. What a funny thing..

The lens' name translates to 'Zorkij'. Now, it seems most Kiev-4 have a Jupiter-somenumber. When I look at Zorkij cameras on the net they seem to have Jupiters too.

I found the manunal at the Butkus site. But would anyone like to comment on this camera and lens?

E. von Hoegh · Aug 19, 2017

3K means "Sonnar Krasnogorsk", 1949. Congratulations, a fairly scarce early lens.

SalveSlog · Aug 19, 2017

Ugh!
Difficult to find info on this .. More on 1:1.5

pdeeh · Aug 19, 2017

Try sovietcams.com

SalveSlog · Aug 19, 2017

Thank you! I found the lens there - on Kiev II cameras.

Dali · Aug 19, 2017

Lens engraving looks a bit too clean to me... Sold with a Kiev 4, weird.

E. von Hoegh · Aug 19, 2017

Dali said:
Lens engraving looks a bit too clean to me... Sold with a Kiev 4, weird.

And what do you think of the ears on the aperture ring, just like a prewar Jena Sonnar?

mgb74 · Aug 19, 2017

You'll need to learn the "Contax hold".

Dali · Aug 19, 2017

E. von Hoegh said:
And what do you think of the ears on the aperture ring, just like a prewar Jena Sonnar?

Any "rare" soviet lens is suspect to me. Too many forged lenses these days...

SalveSlog · Aug 20, 2017

I bought it from a box at a flee marked from someone who clearly knew nothing about cameras. Here is 2 more pictures.

SalveSlog · Aug 20, 2017

mgb74 said:
You'll need to learn the "Contax hold".

Sure. It's rather different. And my middle finger want to block the rangefinder window. And its heavvy. I guess 2 Ikon Nettar medium format folders would be lighter!

E. von Hoegh · Aug 20, 2017

Dali said:
Any "rare" soviet lens is suspect to me. Too many forged lenses these days...

Often a bit of knwledge will avert suspicion.
Lenses for the Kievs were first produced at Krasnogorsk, at least partially of Zeiss materiel - this explains the aperture ring.
Some early lenses were even put in collapsible mounts. Evetually lenses in Kiev mount were produced at Arsenal under the Jupiter designation, and production of screwmount Jupiters began at Krasnogorsk.

Dali · Aug 20, 2017

"Often a bit of knwledge will avert suspicion."... If it were true.... I could tell you the story of 2 guys having CZJ Sonnar lenses bearing the exact same serial number, one in Contax mount, the other in LTM, and of course both guys could tell your their lens was genuine according to those-who-know-it-all... Since this day, I know that everything is possible.

E. von Hoegh · Aug 23, 2017

SalveSlog,
Have you used the camera yet? What year is the body? (first two digits of the serial).
A good Kiev is a lot of fun. The Contax grip takes some getting used to, but turns out to be surprisingly convenient.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 23, 2017

Yanow, we have rangefinder sub forum here...

The lens you have is rare. It is one of the lens collectors are after. It is made in 1949 according SN and it supposed to be with original Zeiss glass which was expropriated by Soviets with entire factory and some workers after war.
Camera is also worth of extra money, but not as mach as this lens. And condition of the kit is also rare to find.

1949 factory catalog with your lens listed:
https://www.zenitcamera.com/catalog/catalog-lenses-1949.html

More info (in Russian)
https://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/jupiter-8.html

SalveSlog · Aug 24, 2017

I just put a film in it but my mind is more on 120 format so it takes some time for me to go through 36 exposures!
The cameras number is 7013976.
I did a shutterpeed test, though I'm not sure that my tester is ideal for focalplane shutters:
1/2 : 1/1.6
1/5 : 1/3
1/10 : 1/5
1/25 : 1/22
1/50 : 1/40
1/125 : 1/120
1/250 : 1/200
1/500 : 1/372
1/1250 : 1/716
As I keep reading about this camera I wonder if this one has had a recent CLA and then for some reason rather soon ended on the flee marked. Externally the lens is clean and I can't see any scratches. Inside, however, it is not clean.
Thanks for the links!
Now, if Dali is right and the lens is a fake. Then what is it?

E. von Hoegh · Aug 24, 2017

SalveSlog said:
I just put a film in it but my mind is more on 120 format so it takes some time for me to go through 36 exposures!
The cameras number is 7013976.
I did a shutterpeed test, though I'm not sure that my tester is ideal for focalplane shutters:
1/2 : 1/1.6
1/5 : 1/3
1/10 : 1/5
1/25 : 1/22
1/50 : 1/40
1/125 : 1/120
1/250 : 1/200
1/500 : 1/372
1/1250 : 1/716
As I keep reading about this camera I wonder if this one has had a recent CLA and then for some reason rather soon ended on the flee marked. Externally the lens is clean and I can't see any scratches. Inside, however, it is not clean.
Thanks for the links!
Now, if Dali is right and the lens is a fake. Then what is it?

If your lens is a fake, then they've learned to fake 68 years worth of haze. It needs cleaning, it won't work well at all as it is.
The camera is from 1970, and also needs cleaning and lubrication. This can be a good thing - it means that neither lens nor camera have been ruined by internet educated tinkerers.
With use, the shutter might loosen up a bit, but there is a lot of mechanism in there, it needs to be very free to give accurate fast speeds.

Ko.Fe. · Aug 24, 2017

Well, looking from inside, as it is shown on the picture, lens is scratched, but not cleaned. It doesn't sounds promising and very unlikely this lens is fake. The lens which was manufactured in later mass production was 50/2 Jupiter 8. In the link for 1949 catalog, your 1949 lens is described as ЗК-50/2 in Zorki and Kiev mounts.

70 at the start of SN is year of production. So, it is Kiev-4.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Киев_(дальномерные_фотоаппараты)

I recently sold Kiev-2 from earlier fifties. Kiev-4AM from eighties was my first Kiev in 2013. And around 2015 very mint Kiev-4A from 1966 which I trashed in the outrage of madness after trying to sew the shutter ribbon. I can't make it with my eyes and fingers. Too tiny job.
So, 4AM was ugly, but worked after I fixed light leaks. Cute, but worn out after decades of use Kiev-2 was serviced by previous owner (he sent it to service described bellow), but it was not so clean after years of use, so I sent it in 2016 for CLA in Kiev and sold it to nice RFF member from NY state couple of months ago.

Known service person for these cameras and lenses is located in the inner and cold part of Russia. People are sending him cameras from UK/Europe for CLA for years.
http://www.okvintagecamera.com/repair.html
I used his service once as well, for FED-2.

Kiev-4 lens

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