Kentmere vs. Bergger and Others?

mmcclellan · Jul 23, 2005

I am considering buying Kentmere paper, but have never tried it in the past. I've used Zone VI and Oriental Seagull, which I like a lot, and a few others, but from the spec sheets and comments I read on Kentmere, it sounds like really good stuff.

How do you folks feel about their papers? I like the fact that they are a small company, keeping b&w alive, financially sound, etc., and I've heard that they make papers for some other brands (Chicago Albumen Works?), but would like to hear your views.

Please tell me what you think -- how does Kentmere stack up to the others, especially Bergger/Forte, Zone VI, and Seagull?

Thanks and I look forward to your comments!

Paul Sorensen · Jul 23, 2005

I just got some of their variable contrast fiber and I really like it. The base is a very neutral to cold white and the emulsion takes a bit more tone from selenium than Ilford, but seems fairly similar. I have used a lot of forte and really like it, but I like the Kentmere as much so far. It is very different from the forte, it has a colder base, more neutral emulsion, and doesn't take an eggplant tone from selenium as quickly. I find Forte almost unusable unless I tone in selenium because of the gree cast of the emulsion, Kentmere's emulsion looks much more neutral and is much more pleasant to me if not toned. Once they are toned I like both, but they have different character.

John Cook · Jul 23, 2005

Let me warn you: I am anything but politically correct. I tell it like it is, so stand by for some grumpy rants.

But in this case, I can't think of anything but nice things to say about Kentmere. An absolutely excellent line of products. And a lot more variety than one would expect in this digital market of shrinking demand.

Bergger has some nice products as well. But the "company" scares me. It's like some wheeler-dealer business-type is buying mystery product from all over and packaging it in boxes labelled with the name of some old dead French guy, with whom he has no real connection.

It is very expensive and time-consuming to run almost endless tests on photo materials, only to have them pulled off the market without notice. Afraid I have lost confidence in the future of all but Kentmere, Ilford and possibly Fotokemika.

By the way, for those in the USA, I also strongly recommend the high level of customer service at Freestyle. I avoided them for years because of that goofy name. It sounded to me like some shlock discount shop in NYC, selling imitation watches. Boy, was I surprised. Their packing department is absolutely the best I have encountered in four decades of photography.

doughowk · Jul 23, 2005

I use Kentmere Bromide for cool tone prints & Forte Fortezo for warm tone prints. Before Kentmere, I used alot of Oriental Seagul and consider it a very good paper. Its about a full stop slower than Kentmere. The bromide paper gives some images an almost 3-D effect as if you could step into it; and it seems to handle a wider tonal range similiar to AZO ( high tone values show good definition).

df cardwell · Jul 23, 2005

Kentmere is superb.

They make some lovely graded papers.

Don

"This suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts !

Ian Grant · Jul 23, 2005

Tou need to be careful comparing actual manufacturers papers alongside rebadged products you've used in the past.

Kentmere, Forte, Ilford, Agfa etc all get rebranded, the problem is that the companies rebranding switch suppliers as the market changes. So Berrger and Zone V! means little unless you know where it was originally produced.

Kentmere papers have always been good, but they became even better when they got a new emulsion chemist a few years ago, and now they are superb.

Ian

Ole · Jul 23, 2005

I really like Kentmere - and Forte. But I also love Bergger for their one unique paper, the "Fine Art Silver Supreme" baryta-free fiber paper...

Ian Grant · Jul 23, 2005

Ole

Kentmere's Document Art range is v much the same, very nice as has the feel of a proper old fashion very early enlarging paper

Ian

Ole · Jul 23, 2005

Ian Grant said:
Kentmere's Document Art range is v much the same,

Very much the same, yet very very different. I use both

Dave Wooten · Jul 23, 2005

So Kentmere Bromide is recommended for contact printing?

roy · Jul 23, 2005

Ole said:
But I also love Bergger for their one unique paper, the "Fine Art Silver Supreme" baryta-free fiber paper...

Ole, what are the qualities that particularly appeal to you ? I have often seen this on the Linhof site but have not used it.

noseoil · Jul 23, 2005

Another inquiry about Kentmere Bromide for contact printing. Azo, at least for me so far, is the hands down winner with respect to tonality and the ability to reproduce fine detail and texture. I have yet to see a paper capable of reproducing the fine textures azo can render. It really is great paper. How does the Bromide paper do in this respect? tim

Ian Grant · Jul 23, 2005

Azo is a Chloride paper and totally different to Kentmere Bromide. They aren't aiming a Bromide paper at the Azo market.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 23, 2005

Kentmere Charcoal R was a really interesting paper, unfortunately discontinued because the paper stock was discontinued by its manufacturer. You had to really target your negatives to it, but when it worked, it was really nice. Kentmere papers are really worth exploring.

When I last set out to find a new paper, I just bought a bunch of 25 packs of 8x10" grade 2 from the various manufacturers, printed one neg on all of them, and I keep the prints as a reference. All of the premium papers are capable of excellent results, and it's really a matter of taste. The comparison test is very much worth doing.

My own choice for enlargements is Efke Emaks formerly sold as Cachet Expo RF, Maco Expo RF, and now sold as J&C Classic Exposition graded (I used to buy it under the Cachet label, and now I get it from J&C).

For contacts it's Azo.

doughowk · Jul 23, 2005

Kentmere Bromide is faster than Oriental Seagul, so doesn't compare to AZO as contact print. To my eyes both Kentmere Bromide & Kodak AZO provide comparable tonal range & sharpness whereas the chloro-bromide papers appear muddy in comparison.

mikeg · Jul 23, 2005

I too like Kentmere papers, I switched to them last year when Ilford had their troubles. I really like their VC Fibre paper and especially the Finegrain surface which is a pearl finish. Their warmtone paper is nice but I've found it very difficult to tone in selenium which is unusual for a warmtone paper. Kentona is supposed to be good for lith although I've had varied luck with it. The other paper to try is their Art Classic which is a chloro-bromide paper with an ivory base and a rough surface. It's good for hand colouring as is their Art Document which is a very rough single weight paper. Quite hard to use, I had problems getting it to dry without wrinkling. Kentona and the Art range are only available in grade 2.

Finally, one of the best things about them is that in the UK they're nearly half the price of Ilford et al.

Mike

Ole · Jul 24, 2005

roy said:
Ole, what are the qualities that particularly appeal to you ? I have often seen this on the Linhof site but have not used it.

The rough matte surface gives a velvety black which may not be the highest Dmax, but is certainly the most "convincing black" of any paper that I've tried. Looks great on my "Black Landscape"!

mmcclellan · Jul 25, 2005

Ole said:
I really like Kentmere - and Forte. But I also love Bergger for their one unique paper, the "Fine Art Silver Supreme" baryta-free fiber paper...

All this info is great! Thanks, everyone! Is anyone else using the Bergger paper recommended here? How does it compare to others? I have not seen samples of most of these papers and hate to go out and buy boxes of it, only to test it and not like it. Thoughts on the Bergger Fine Art Silver Supreme?

Thanks.

Ole · Jul 25, 2005

mmcclellan said:
Thoughts on the Bergger Fine Art Silver Supreme?

It's expensive. Very expensive. It's probably the most expensive silver gelatin paper on the market.

But if you don't like it, you can just fix it without developing. After washing you are left with pristine prewashed COT-320, beloved by many alt. printers...

Jerevan · Jul 27, 2005

Another vote for Kentmere papers. Especially the VC fibers (Fineprint VC). I love their Finegrain Warmtone. Ilfords papers are good too, but given the choice I stick with Kentmere.

kpphoto · Jul 30, 2007

Kentmere

Art Classic and Art Document D.Wt have been discontinued. see Kentmeres' web site notice....

http://www.kentmere.co.uk/main/kentmere.htm

jp80874 · Jul 30, 2007

Michael,

"Another vote for Kentmere papers. Especially the VC fibers (Fineprint VC)."
I switched on a friend's suggestion from Kodak's Polymax when they stopped making it. What was that three years ago? I use Ilford Multigrade developer, Ilford contrast filters with an Aristo cold light head. I use the combination for contact printing 7x17 and enlarging 8x10 negs to 20x24. I thought I would want to try several brands, but this was so good on the first try I didn't wander. Good stuff.

John Powers

jeroldharter · Jul 30, 2007

I too sitched to Kentmere VC FB after testing several brands to replace Kodak Polymax FA. I still use Zone VI sometimes but prefer Kentmere. Zone VI is significantly warmer than Kentmere. Kentmere is very responsive to selenium toner.

I did not care for Kentmere warmtone when I tried that probably because of the cream colored base. Much preferred Forte Polyarmtone.

AndreasT · Jul 31, 2007

I like the Kentmere Fineprint VC paper a lot. However according to my tests using filter, I've noticed that Grade 5 is softer than Grade 4.

jp80874 · Jul 31, 2007

Andreas,
Do you use a cold light head? In Kentmere's specifications they say that the paper will not offer as much contrast change at the end numbers (00, 0 and 4,5) using a cold light head. This can be a problem when trying to use split grade filtering. Other wise a better film exposure is probably needed.

from the Technical Data page,
"Fineprint VC is designed for use with tungsten or tungsten halogen light sources. Cold light source enlargers can be used, but they may limit the contrast range achievable."

John Powers

Kentmere vs. Bergger and Others?

mmcclellan

Paul Sorensen

John Cook

doughowk

df cardwell

Ian Grant

Ole

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roy

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