Kentmere papers manufactured on Ilford coating machines

George Papantoniou · Jan 15, 2008

I am sorry if this has been already mentioned (and I missed it), but I just read in the recent Silvershotz editorial that Ilford has (since last October) started coating the Kentmere Silver Papers in their plant (using the Kentmere folmulae and paper base) and the Kentmere plant does not produce Silver papers anymore. Is this true ? I followed the thread regarding the fact that Ilford bought Kentmere but if I remember well, there was no mention of moving the production to the premises where the Ilford papers are coated. Are the people who worked in the Kentmere production line going to be employed by Ilford somewhere else ?

kraker · Jan 15, 2008

George Papantoniou said:
I am sorry if this has been already mentioned (and I missed it), but I just read in the recent Silvershotz editorial that Ilford has (since last October) started coating the Kentmere Silver Papers in their plant (using the Kentmere folmulae and paper base) and the Kentmere plant does not produce Silver papers anymore. Is this true ? I followed the thread regarding the fact that Ilford bought Kentmere but if I remember well, there was no mention of moving the production to the premises where the Ilford papers are coated. Are the people who worked in the Kentmere production line going to be employed by Ilford somewhere else ?

There was another thread about this, where Simon mentioned that indeed the production is being moved to Mobberley. But the title of your post is "jumping to conclusions"; the coating machines of Kentmere are also moved to Mobberley, so I suppose that once they are up and running again, the Kentmere papers will be manufactured as they should be, on Kentmere coating machines. Only the location of production changes.

Ah, I found it... (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Ian Grant · Jan 15, 2008

It's worth noting that Ilford are also manufacturing the new range of papers for Bergger, These are already being advertised and the first RC paper was reviewed in November's Résponse Photo (French magazine).

This means that Mobberley will be producing a very wide range of B&W products which has to be beneficial to all of us who still use traditional materials.

Ian

Michael Kadillak · Jan 15, 2008

Ian Grant said:
It's worth noting that Ilford are also manufacturing the new range of papers for Bergger, These are already being advertised and the first RC paper was reviewed in November's Résponse Photo (French magazine).

This means that Mobberley will be producing a very wide range of B&W products which has to be beneficial to all of us who still use traditional materials.

Ian

I encourage everyone to continue to purchase their favorite Ilford (Bergger and Kentmere) B&W papers and encourage others to do so because just as sure as the sun is going to rise in the morning, there will be a financial decision in the near future to optimize this production to the highest return on investment products that will inherently mean that a certain percentage of this new product line will be reduced. Why?

Ilford has a finite amount of manufacturing coating "capacity". Now they have a number of new emulsions and products to produce so they are humping hard to keep thinks rolling. Time has always been money so naturally the utilization of their capacity will be toward the best return on investment.

In a consolidating market when a participant acquires several competitors it does not mean that they are solely interested in additional product lines. Much of the incentive is taking out competition and the uncertainty that their continued presence represents. Don't take it personally it is business.

Long live analog! Pass the word.

Willie Jan · Jan 15, 2008

I heard that fotoimpex (germany) bought the agfa machines/formulary and is probably going to produce the original agfa baryta paper again in july.

Ian Grant · Jan 15, 2008

In the same issue of Résponse Photo there was an interview with Mirko of Fotoimpex and the new Adox paper, based on the Agfa formula.

Mirko has posted (there was a url link here which no longer exists) about planned production and also sent out samples for testing.

Ian

PHOTOTONE · Jan 15, 2008

Ilford stated in a post here on APUG, that they made up very large stocks of all Kentmere paper before starting the move, so they would have plenty of product to sell while they got the products up and running at the new location.

ath · Jan 15, 2008

kraker said:
the coating machines of Kentmere are also moved to Mobberley

Where did you get this from? In your cited posting Simon mentions "some manufacturing equipment" beeing moved to Mobberley. This could be everything from a scale to a coating machine.

pentaxuser · Jan 15, 2008

Well whatever does get moved, it may be in time to form an interesting extra for this year's June tour of Ilford both visually and as a talking/education point.

pentaxuser

kraker · Jan 15, 2008

ath said:
Where did you get this from? In your cited posting Simon mentions "some manufacturing equipment" beeing moved to Mobberley. This could be everything from a scale to a coating machine.

Indeed, I stand corrected; it was just my interpretation of this part of Simons statement:

We have produced very, very large stocks of KENTMERE manufactured product to ensure we have plenty of time to enable the equipment transfer from KENTMERE to HARMAN technology Limited to take place and to ensure that the Mobberley produced KENTMERE products are as close to the originals as is humanly and technically possible.

Well, one would not produce very, very large stocks of KENTMERE stuff just to transfer a scale... But you are right, me saying that it´s a coating machine is jumping to conclusions on my behalf.

Perhaps we could once again ask Simon to shed some light on this issue.

George Papantoniou · Jan 16, 2008

Don't take my post as an anti-Ilford rant... I've always been - and still am - a keen Ilford supporter, as you can find out by reading other posts I have made about the company. I'll be very happy to use Ilford-manufactured Kentmere-formulae papers in the future. I just wanted to know if what was written in the Silvershotz editorial was true, since I had not read the relevant thread you mention here on APUG...
I also feel confident that Ilford will even enrich Kentmere's specialty paper product line, by succeeding to find again and use the special paper base that was used in the past to make the "art" papers and were disontinued a couple of years ago.
It's been years now that I make a big effort to make all my students understand that Ilford is THE company they have to support by buying their products, in order to keep us being able to use silver products for the time we have left in this world (and, since I don't believe in afterlife, for the time that we have left at all...:rolleyes

Ian Grant · Jan 16, 2008

George, I think the problem has been rumours about the Kentmere plants closure and in accurate information. It's a great pity that magazine editors don't ensure the accuracy of the stories they print.

Now perhaps I can at last find a warm-tone paper that I like made at Mobberely to replace Forte Polywarmtone even if it's not Ilford/Harmann branded

Ian

ath · Jan 16, 2008

Ian Grant said:
It's a great pity that magazine editors don't ensure the accuracy of the stories they print.

Which magazine article are you referring to?

Ian Grant · Jan 16, 2008

ath said:
Which magazine article are you referring to?

See George's original post.

ath · Jan 16, 2008

Ian Grant said:
See George's original post.

And what's inaccurate there?

Gary Holliday · Jan 16, 2008

George Papantoniou said:
I also feel confident that Ilford will even enrich Kentmere's specialty paper product line, by succeeding to find again and use the special paper base that was used in the past to make the "art" papers and were disontinued a couple of years ago.

This is a plan in action already. If Foma were able to find a replacement in the far east, I'm sure Ilford have the resources to succeed also.

Dave Miller · Jan 16, 2008

ath said:
And what's inaccurate there?

Nothing.

Photo Engineer · Jan 16, 2008

I might point out that Kodak uses CELS (Committee for Emulsion Lab Standardization) to insure that every plant can make a given product identically. This is no trivial task. I worked with and under the chairpersons and founders of that at Kodak for over 15 years. I wish Ilford well, but I know how hard this transition may be. We also used KEDS (Kodak Emulsion Design Software) to insure design and scaliing compatibility with all equipment WW.

Every year, every lab must pass a certification test, otherwise, for example, color paper made in Colorado might not match paper made in Harrow.

PE

Matt5791 · Jan 17, 2008

Whilst it's always sad ot hear of a factory closing, even more when it is one so well established, economically this has to be an absolutely cracking move for Ilford.

- They get to utilise some of the massive amount of space they have available at Mobberley
- The distribution warehouse gets to handle more product - ideal
- They are able to generate better economies of scale all round - and we all know how important this is in photo material production.

Matt

Kentmere papers manufactured on Ilford coating machines

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