Kentmere, My continuing struggle

[michael9793]

After reseaching to find if photographers liked Kentmere, I went ahead and ordered some 8x10 and 11x14 paper. It seems to have a richness to it. But not to what I'm getting with Ilford. It could be I have not found a developer to match with it. Speaking of developers I know of two that don't work with it at all. One is Amidol and the other is Pyro Plus Paper developer. I changed to Ilford and got images. I would have had to increase my exposure time by 3-4 stops minimal. This would put it in the 120-180 sec. exposure range. ANd even with that the tones are not great.

Next I am finding that when I use the stop clock timer with this paper and increase my contrast it also greatly increases the exposure of the highlights and the contrast doesn't change that much. Now this could possible be due to the Zone VI VC enlarger that uses Green and Blue light versing Yellow and Magenta. I'm finding my range of contrast is very limited. But when using ilford or Zone VI brilliant papers, I can control the contrast as it should be on the stop clock timer.
So with the combination of Pyrocat-HD, a Zone VI enlargers this paper just doesn't respond very well. Is anyone else finding this. and if so which paper seems to work the best with the pyrocat and Zone VI enlarger.

Regards Michael Andersen

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I've been ultimately disappointed, but only mildly, with the Kentmere papers in the long run, but I have not had the extreme problems you've had. If anything, I find the paper too contrasty. I have tried it in Dektol, Ilford Warmtone/Ilford Cooltone, and Ansco 130. In all of these developers, I have found it to be a very FAST paper - exposure times typically 2/3rds to 1 1/2 stops faster than my exposure times for Bergger VCCB (my standard paper). I am using an RH Designs Analyzer Pro, connected to a Beseler 45 Dichro head. If you could provide some more information about your development procedures (ie dilutions, time in developer, etc) and also some scans of prints you found unsuccessful with this paper, it might help to diagnose the problem.

 

[Mark Layne]

I have to say I get excellent results with Kentmere papers especially Kentona and the Bromide papers also Fineprint VC Warmtone.

I would suggest trying a conventional neutral developer such as Dektol or Bromophen before the more exotic stuff like Amidol
Mark

 

[Bob F.]

There is a post on here somewhere with an attachment where I plotted the curves of MGIV and Fineprint in Ansco 130 using my Durst's colour head for filtration. Bottom line was they have similar contrast range but Fineprint had slightly (1/3rd of a stop) less Dmax and slightly higher Dmin.

Kentmere suggest keeping the wet time as short as possible with some of their papers - 45 mins was suggested - so that may be worth trying.

You didn't say, but I assume you are using Fineprint VC? If so, it's odd that you find it slower than the MGIV as I find it noticeably faster. Possible problem with your paper?

IIRC, the older Zone VI cold light heads have problems getting a good hard grade on most papers: Ilford mention it in their PDF on contrast control.

Good luck, Bob.

 

[Andrey Donchev]

Kentmere Bromide and Amidol

Hi, I do not have experience, but I noticed that on the Shawn Dougherty's "Craft" section of the WEB-site hi states that all his pictures (which I like very much) are made on KENTMERE Bromid in Amidol. Yes they are quite contrasty, but I don't find this unpleasant.

 

[catem]

Like Bob I find the Fineprint VC about a third or so faster than Kentona. I use Agfa NeutolNE and WA, the last gives gorgeous rich tones on Kentona, no need to tone after, specially if you use a longish development time (say 3 mins), and specially if it's on the warmer side temp.wise. For Kentona I expose (12 x 16) for average 30 secs on f/8. A lot of it's subjective preference though, it's not the punchiest of looks, as you go warmer.
Cate

 

[Donald Miller]

After reseaching to find if photographers liked Kentmere, I went ahead and ordered some 8x10 and 11x14 paper. It seems to have a richness to it. But not to what I'm getting with Ilford. It could be I have not found a developer to match with it. Speaking of developers I know of two that don't work with it at all. One is Amidol and the other is Pyro Plus Paper developer. I changed to Ilford and got images. I would have had to increase my exposure time by 3-4 stops minimal. This would put it in the 120-180 sec. exposure range. ANd even with that the tones are not great.

Next I am finding that when I use the stop clock timer with this paper and increase my contrast it also greatly increases the exposure of the highlights and the contrast doesn't change that much. Now this could possible be due to the Zone VI VC enlarger that uses Green and Blue light versing Yellow and Magenta. I'm finding my range of contrast is very limited. But when using ilford or Zone VI brilliant papers, I can control the contrast as it should be on the stop clock timer.
So with the combination of Pyrocat-HD, a Zone VI enlargers this paper just doesn't respond very well. Is anyone else finding this. and if so which paper seems to work the best with the pyrocat and Zone VI enlarger.

Regards Michael Andersen

Excuse me, but I think that the obvious question is what is the density range of your camera negative? What are your max and minimum densities? I would question the enlarger light source too...but your comments about lack of contrast indicate a negative that has inadequate density range.

Did you DBI your negatives? A dense negative does not necessarily mean a negative with adequate density range. In fact it may very well mean the exact opposite.

If you can't get development with Amidol or PPPD (both of which are some pretty active developers), it is likely that you have not exposed the paper adequately.

I have used Kentmere VC and do not like it for my work...but speed of the paper is not the reason.

 

[jp80874]

In the last year I have used about six boxes of Kentmere VC Fineprint, 50 sheets x16" x 20" developed in Ilford Multigrade developer. Very Happy. When I started using it I read and copied the details in the product description. Way down under Exposure is this text, " Fineprint VC is designed for use with tungsten or tungsten halogen light sources. Cold light source enlargers can be used, but they may limit the contrast range achievable." I wrote Kentmere in England and said that I rarely use above a 3 or below 1. They said they thought there would be no problem on my Durst 138 converted to 12x12 Aristo Cold Light. In the last box I have taken up split grade printing using 0 and 5 and still had no problem. I have read that I have the more recent style cold light bulb and that the older earlier ones do have this problem. I don't know what you have in your Zone Vl, but if I were in your place I would consider that as a possible source of the problem.

Good luck,
John Powers

 

[jim appleyard]

Maybe some info here? Dead Link Removed

 

[michael9793]

Scott,
I think I will go back to Dektol and see if that helps. I have used Ilford MC developer and got good results but then I have the contrast problem again, with my Zone VI VC type II enlarger. everyone seems to use a color heads where my heads (5x7 and 8x10) are positive colors green and blue versing negative colors of yellow and magenta. (I may have that backwards). As for the amidol I use that for my Azo so trying with that was more of a check on what it would do. The small changes while working are what I see and scanning the prints really will not show this. I have some Dektol and I will mix that up and see how that responds, I have been using arista cold tone developer which is a hydroquinone base developer.
Bob,
It is the Fineprint VC that I'm using.the speed problem was with the amidol and Pyro developers. Not a good thing to compare with.
I really am happy you have responded. I never hear of anyone using the Zone VI VC head and having these situation.
The Truth is I have 3 boxes of 11x14 ,1 bx of 8x10, 1-16x20 and ,1-20x24. So as you can see I have committed to the paper for now.

 

[michael9793]

I copied this from kentmere's website and I hope they will get back to me about my enlarger. But this kind of answers the question.



Exposure
VC Select is designed for use with tungsten or tungsten halogen light sources. Cold light source enlargers can be used, but they may limit the contrast range achievable.



Contrast Control
Contrast as a range approximately equivalent to grades 00 to 5 is achievable from VC Select by means of colour filters used in the enlarger. Proprietary filter sets such as Ilford Multigrade or Kodak Polymax are suitable, as are modular and automatic enlarger heads featuring proprietary filters; otherwise the magenta and yellow filters of colour enlarging heads can be used. Below are tables of enlarger colour filter settings recommended for use with VC Select. Filter settings recommended by other manufacturers will also give a similar range of contrasts; there may be slight differences in grade spacings.

The contrast of the paper is continuously variable so that the grades are fixed only by the filter settings used, and thus fractional grade changes can be achieved.

Filters of colour enlargers from different manufacturers fall into three categories as follows:-

Durst: Dunco, Durst, Kaiser, Keinzle, Leitz, Lupo.

Kodak: Beseler, De Vere, Chromega, Fujimoto, IFF, Jobo, LPL, Omega, Paterson, Vivitar, Simmard.

Agfa: Agfa, Krokus, Meopta.

I hope they have a better answer than this or I'm screwed with 300 sheets of paper

 

[Bob F.]

You might also try a high-contrast developer such as Beers mixed for high contrast. Or try Ansco 130 (the Darkroom Cookbook suggests using undiluted Ansco 130 gives higher contrast - not tried that myself, I use it 1+1). It may help.

Good luck, Bob.

 

[dphphoto]

I've had good luck with Kentmere VC using a Beseler 45MX with condenser head and Ilford MG filters. Ethol LPD 1:2 gives a good black with this paper. Dean

 

[Les McLean]

Read Don Miller's post again IMO he has the answer to your problem. If you are using a cold cathode enlarger your negatives need to be higher in contrast, perhaps 1 grade harder. In addition Kentmere paper does not have the Dmax of the Fortes and Ilfords of this world, another reason to print using a negative with higher contrast. Follow Don's advice and I think you will save the investment in paper.

 

[michael9793]

Just to let you all know Kentmere never anwsered my e-mail regarding the Zone VI enlarger colors and the effect on there paper. I guess if you don't know the answer you just don't return the persons e-mail. good job kentmere. I'm going back to ilford.

 

[michael9793]

Thanks Les,
Most of my negatives are on the grade 2-3 range. But lately my 8x20 negatives have been much higher in contrast. And using kentmere to contact proof has been still hard, since the only light source for my VC papers is my enlarger. On the other hand, a couple of my negatives I'm even using a water bath on the Azo G2 which is unheard of. But I never have any problems with Ilford. So why did stupid me change if I'm are getting great results from another paper. I guess just to make more work for myself.