Kentmere Fineprint VC FB contrast problem

bobbysandstrom · May 18, 2006

Dave and Mike. What film do you use? And, what paper developer do you use? Just curious as I'm thinking maybe a film that has a complimentary curve might be very helpful with resolving some of the issues I have with the paper. It has qualities that I like very much, however, I would need to explore ways of extracting more in terms of even tonality.

Thanks

mikeg · May 18, 2006

I tend to use Ilford FP4+, HP5+ and occasionally Neopan 400. Paper developer is usually Ilford Multigrade or Fotospeed DV10. Despite being a PhD level scientist, I've never bothered with curves, etc. So, I'm afraid I can't help you there. I just use it because I like it! I especially like the Finegrain surface.

Cheers

Mike

dancqu · May 18, 2006

Lachlan Young said:
Better still it is a non developer incorporated paper so ... Lachlan

So, just add water? I wonder which developers are
added to the so called DI papers? Or is it DI emulsions?
Or the supercoat only has DI? I've read of DI supercoats
from manufacturer's PDF data sheets.

Personally I doubt there are any papers we might
use where developer incorporation is any more than a
technicality. The DI does not on itself build any image
density. Why developer is a component of the
supercoat I could not say. Dan

dancqu · May 19, 2006

mikeg said:
Certainly up to grade 4. I can't
remember having to print at grade 5.
Mike

Grade 5 should be a snap. I've gotten grade 4 with
No Filters using a condenser enlarger and developed in
carbonated ACU-1, 1:7 dilution. I know, ACU-1 is
a film developer. Dan

dancqu · May 19, 2006

dancqu said:
Grade 5 should be a snap. I've gotten grade 4 with
No Filters using a condenser enlarger and developed in
carbonated ACU-1, 1:7 dilution. I know, ACU-1 is
a film developer. Dan

I forgot to mention the bromide. On a working strength
liter basis I added 0.4 grams of k. bromide. On the same
basis, 6 grams of s. carbonate were added. The
subject, BTW, is Kentmere Fineprint VC Glossy.

Forte Polywarmtone is quite another story. I've still to
fully evaluate the Forte. Each of the two papers has
been through three developers. Dan

Dave Miller · May 20, 2006

I use Ilford films FP4, FP5, but more usually now Delta 100, and 400. I also print from Maco IR, and most other makes and types of films. Paper developer used is generally whatever is mixed at the time, and is something I must experiment with again.

michael9793 · May 22, 2006

I use efke PL 100 on 8x10 and 8x20, I have all the efke speeds for 4x5 but shoot so little 4x5 anymore I'm not sure how it would look. I process in pyrocat-HD 1.5:2:100 and do development by inspection and start observing at 7.5min unless I'm doing N-1orN-2 development and i will start at 5 mins. Printing seems to be slightly on the flat side. Which I believe is due to brown stain and my Zone IV enlarging head. At this time I'm using the head as a means to print my 8x20 contact prints with Kentmere due to the lack of Grade 3 Azo available. As soon as I receive my lodima paper from Michael I will be back to using my Azo Gr2 and the Lodima paper on the 8x20. I use arista cold tone paper developer right now.
sorry for rambling.

Mike

michael9793 · May 25, 2006

Where can I buy ADOX fineprint VC paper? I just used kentmere 16x20 paper to print one of my photos of a storm in which I have 6 different burn ins. the print is printed on max. hard light on my Zone VI enlarger which uses a blue light, and it came out muddy. in fact the highlights would darkens just as much as the shadow areas, making it impossible to get a very high contrast print. The original which has great tones was printed on kodak polymax and dektol.

Lachlan Young · May 25, 2006

michael9793 said:
Where can I buy ADOX fineprint VC paper? I just used kentmere 16x20 paper to print one of my photos of a storm in which I have 6 different burn ins. the print is printed on max. hard light on my Zone VI enlarger which uses a blue light, and it came out muddy. in fact the highlights would darkens just as much as the shadow areas, making it impossible to get a very high contrast print. The original which has great tones was printed on kodak polymax and dektol.

Try JandC in the USA or Retrophotographic in the UK or Fotoimpex in Europe.

Hope this helps and have fun with a superb paper,

Lachlan

P.S. ADOX Fineprint comes out of the same factory as EFKE

schlger · Jan 2, 2007

Did anybody compare multigrade developer an developer of the dektol type with Fineprint VC?

With a selfmade PQ developer, the Fineprint did´t exceed grade4, it simply doesn´t responde to filtration above 80 Magenta. Was anybody able to prove the state of Kentmere´s data sheet, that conventional developers restrict both, D-max and range of grades at the Fineprint VC?
Does anyone know the formula of a typical multigrade developer?

My developer was:
2g EDTA tetraacetic acid tetrasodium salt
12g hydrochinone
40g sodiumsulphite
60g sodiumcarbonate
0,5g phenidone-A
1g potassiumbromide
6mg phenylmercaptotetrazole
in one litre of water

dilution: 1+1, time: 2,5 min at 20°C

Thanks a lot!
Gerhard

dancqu · Jan 2, 2007

schlger said:
Did anybody compare multigrade developer an
developer of the dektol type with Fineprint VC?

With a selfmade PQ developer, the Fineprint did' t
exceed grade4, it simply doesn´t responde to
filtration above 80 Magenta.

Was anybody able to prove the state of Kentmere´s
data sheet, that conventional developers restrict both,
D-max and range of grades at the Fineprint VC?
Does anyone know the formula of a typical
multigrade developer?

My developer was:
2g EDTA tetraacetic acid tetrasodium salt
12g hydrochinone
40g sodiumsulphite
60g sodiumcarbonate
0,5g phenidone-A
1g potassiumbromide
6mg phenylmercaptotetrazole
in one litre of water

dilution: 1+1, time: 2,5 min at 20°C

Thanks a lot! Gerhard

A typical multigrade developer. AFAIK there are as such
no multigrade developers. For any one developer grade is
determined by the paper and it's exposure; filtration.
I wonder about that statement made by Kentmere.

Beer's contrast control developer is actually a series of
developers with increasing amounts of hydroquinone for
increased contrast. A. Adams' version of Ansco 130 like
wise is added hydroquinone to vary contrast. Dan

Nicholas Lindan · Jan 3, 2007

FWIW, graded Kentmere FB #3 and #4 are identical, diverging at 1.6 OD where they differ by .15 OD before converging again.

David Lingham · Jan 3, 2007

This is an interesting thread. A few months ago in the UK B&W mag Mike Crawford did a very good article on cooltone prints. He used Ilford/Harman cooltone dev and Dektol. Amonst the papers tested was Kentmere Fineprint FBVC. For a while now I've been looking for a cooltone paper/dev combination, and as I already use Kentona for my lith work. I thought I'd try both the Fineprint FBVC and the warmtone version. In recent weeks I've made alot of prints on both papers (as my wife will testify!), and used both Ilford multigrade and Harman cooltone developers. I have to agree with most of the posts, something strange happens above G4, if you can get there! and I use a dichro head on a Devere 203. I wasn't really happy splitgrading with either paper. They do however work very well in selenium/sepia/gold toning. A few months ago I did get a response from the Kentmere tech desk, when I asked what they meant by "manual dev" in there fact sheet; answer: a multigrade developer is prefered to fully exploit the VC emulsion. I've sent a link for this thread to there tech dept. Inviting a response.

hka · Jan 4, 2007

I'am very suprised that, until now, nobody from Kentmere came into this discussion to tell how it realy is. I have, some time ago, mentioned the same problem on the Dutch APUG. Silence...!!!!

dancqu · Jan 4, 2007

David Lingham said:
...a multigrade developer is prefered to
fully exploit the VC emulsion.

Edwal's TST is a two part "multigrade" paper
developer. IIRC they use another approach to
to vary the grade. Part B is in effect a "turn on"
for the likely hydroquinone component already
contained in the A part. A check of the
MDS will confirm.

Perhaps Kentmere's developer is a two part and/or
the instructions say use at higher temperatures
for higher contrast. Dan

Thomas Bertilsson · Jan 4, 2007

I used up a 50 sheet box of 11x14 of this. When I try new paper, I always read the instructions. My memory may not be worth more than 50 cents, but I cannot remember special instructions in regards to temperature or special developers.
The consensus for me is to use a paper that responds normally to all filter grades. Yesterday I had to print something on a grade 4 graded paper (it happened to be Kentmere Bromide by the way, an excellent paper), which I couldn't have done without some (to me unknown) tricks with the Kentmere VC. There are four papers left in that box, likely never to be used.
Ilford VC, whatever Kodak and Agfa I have left, Mitsubishi, and Fotokemika papers I have left all respond fine to the full filter range, so I use them instead. Simple as that. Why make it difficult?

- Thom

David Lingham · Jan 4, 2007

Thomas
I aggree with you. Why change what works for you. For me, trying Kentmere was prompted by the article in uk B&W and my interest in finding a cooltone paper/dev combo also the low price here in the uk. To be fair I bought a 50 sheet box of fineprint and warmtone and gave them both a fair test. This morning I found this quote on the Kentmere site, where they mention there own developer which I've never seen on sale anywhere:

Quote from Kentmere data:
To maximise d. max, grade spacing and tonal rendition, a multicontrast chemical system such as Kentmere VC Select Plus Developer and Fixer, especially formulated to enhance variable contrast emulsions' characteristics, is recommended. Also recommended, in alphabetical order are Agfa Multicontrast, Champion B&W Multicontrast, Ilford Multigrade, Kodak Polymax, and Tetenal Variospeed developers, together with their appropriate fixers. Equivalent products from other manufacturers should give similar results.
We do not recommend conventional manual developers, which tend to inhibit both d. max and contrast.

I think it'll be back to Ilford MGWT.

michael9793 · Jan 8, 2007

hka said:
I'am very suprised that, until now, nobody from Kentmere came into this discussion to tell how it realy is. I have, some time ago, mentioned the same problem on the Dutch APUG. Silence...!!!!

I'm not I e-mailed them and they didn't respond, so having them respond on APUG is no suprise to me. But after a little reseach and discussions on APUG, most questions have been answered. best results with MG paper is condenser head with a encendesent light and the use of yellow and magenta filteration. You won't get much more than grade 1-4 and that is stretching it.

Mike Andersen

michael9793 · Jan 8, 2007

David Lingham said:
This is an interesting thread. A few months ago in the UK B&W mag Mike Crawford did a very good article on cooltone prints. He used Ilford/Harman cooltone dev and Dektol. Amonst the papers tested was Kentmere Fineprint FBVC. For a while now I've been looking for a cooltone paper/dev combination, and as I already use Kentona for my lith work. I thought I'd try both the Fineprint FBVC and the warmtone version. In recent weeks I've made alot of prints on both papers (as my wife will testify!), and used both Ilford multigrade and Harman cooltone developers. I have to agree with most of the posts, something strange happens above G4, if you can get there! and I use a dichro head on a Devere 203. I wasn't really happy splitgrading with either paper. They do however work very well in selenium/sepia/gold toning. A few months ago I did get a response from the Kentmere tech desk, when I asked what they meant by "manual dev" in there fact sheet; answer: a multigrade developer is prefered to fully exploit the VC emulsion. I've sent a link for this thread to there tech dept. Inviting a response.

Try Forte and beggers warm tone paper I find right now that they seem to repond the best to contrast change of any paper. I've mixed up some Ilford ID-78 warm tone developer and use Amidol enlarging developer. both have given me great warm tones and nice highlights and shadow detail.

Mike Andersen

Kentmere Fineprint VC FB contrast problem

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