Kentmere Defects?

Daniel Lawton · Jan 25, 2006

I just opened a new box of Kentmere VC Fineprint 8x10 and the first 15 or so sheets all had small bumps or pits that eventually would cause the emulsion to flake off in that area. Anyone know what this is. I've never had this problem with Kodak or Ilford papers and the last box of Kentmere I used didn't have this problem either. My processing routine has been the same for awhile now and nothing has changed which leads me to believe Kentmere has had a problem with quality control or defective coating on this particular batch. Has anybody else seen this before? Kentmere doesn't really list a contact in the U.S. except for dealers wishing to carry their products and I don't believe B+H refunds consumables such as film and paper so it looks like I'll have to eat the $60.

jim appleyard · Jan 25, 2006

Call B&H and see what they have to say. Usually defects are taken care of, and the policy of no returns on consumable usually applies to folks that "just changed my mind ".

I haven't used Kentmere recently, but I used to use quite a bit of the old Luminos brand which was just Kentmere in a Luminos box. It was good stuff and I never had a quality -control problem.

rrankin · Jan 25, 2006

I've been using Kentmere and Luminous (while it was around) for several years and have never had any defect at all. You might try emailing Kentmere in the UK if B&H won't help. I think they'd likely investigate even if B&H wouldn't.

Cheers, Richard

Bob F. · Jan 26, 2006

Can you feel the bumps etc on the unexposed paper? If so you should have no problem showing the defect is with the product, and not with your processing.

In the UK all goods must be "fit for their intended use". It is up to the retailer to correct any problems. I'd have thought the US will have similar consumer protection. Contact B&H - you may be pleasantly surprised by their reaction.

Cheers, Bob.

Monophoto · Jan 26, 2006

Daniel -

I'm not aware of a specific current problem with Kentmere - but I suspect that every manufacturer has (and continues to have) occasional problems.

Several years ago I bought some Orwo paper ("Germany's Finest") from Freestyle. Great stuff - but I got one box of 8x10 that had a strip about 1/2" wide down the 10" side that had no emulsion. About a year later I was on the phone with Freestyle ordering more of the stuff and mentioned the problem to the sales guy. His told me to just send back whatever was left of the box and they would replace the box. Since I had already used the paper (and was very happy with the results) I thanked him but didn't do anything else.

I also suspect that the practice is to quietly make sure that customers are taken care of and that word of the problem doesn't get into the news. Then along came the internet and the ability for gossip to spread at the speed of light.

The best approach is to call B&H and explain the problem. If they aren't willing to help, call the US distributor of Kentmere.

JHannon · Jan 26, 2006

I recently bought some Kentmere FB graded Bromide to test. I find the length to be too long to fit my easels (in the 10in length only, 8in is OK). Both packs grade 2 and 3 were like this. I had to trim about 1/8in to get it to fit. Kodak, Ilford all fit fine. just the Kentmere was too long.

Other than that, it appears to be a very nice paper. No surface defects.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 26, 2006

The only problem I've had with Kentmere paper is small, random high-density marks in the developed image. I concluded these were a result of static discharge during manufacture. When they appeared on Zone VI Brilliant Bromide (which was repackaged Kentmere Bromide), Calumet replaced the entire 100-sheet box at no charge. Lately, I've noticed *very* minor evidence of this phenomenon on a few sheets in a package of Fineprint VC, but nothing on Bromide. I suggest you contact Freestyle, the US importer for Kentmere. They should be willing to stand behind the product if it's defective.

Photo Engineer · Jan 26, 2006

Sal Santamaura said:
The only problem I've had with Kentmere paper is small, random high-density marks in the developed image. I concluded these were a result of static discharge during manufacture. When they appeared on Zone VI Brilliant Bromide (which was repackaged Kentmere Bromide), Calumet replaced the entire 100-sheet box at no charge. Lately, I've noticed *very* minor evidence of this phenomenon on a few sheets in a package of Fineprint VC, but nothing on Bromide. I suggest you contact Freestyle, the US importer for Kentmere. They should be willing to stand behind the product if it's defective.

Sal, black specks on FB Baryta papers was known to be a problem at EK. They solved it years ago. It is a recurring problem with an impurity in barium sulfate which reacts with silver halide and forms either dots (pepper grain) or streaks of fog in the direction of flow or motion when coating.

Another defect is that the pepper grain can form of itself if there is a minor glitch in making the emulsion itself. This is particularly true of high chloride emulsions used in papers. Usually it is related to gelatin. This type of pepper grain will appear on print papers of all types, RC or FB.

PE

Sal Santamaura · Jan 26, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
Sal, black specks on FB Baryta papers was known to be a problem at EK. They solved it years ago. It is a recurring problem with an impurity in barium sulfate which reacts with silver halide and forms either dots (pepper grain) or streaks of fog in the direction of flow or motion when coating.

Another defect is that the pepper grain can form of itself if there is a minor glitch in making the emulsion itself. This is particularly true of high chloride emulsions used in papers. Usually it is related to gelatin. This type of pepper grain will appear on print papers of all types, RC or FB.

PE

That's interesting Ron. The recent occasional speck on Fineprint VC could easily be what you describe, but my earlier experience with Brilliant Bromide sure looked like static discharge. A dark center area and small lightning-bolt shaped streaks in random directions from it. Those "arms" didn't seem to correlate with a fixed paper direction during coating travel.

Photo Engineer · Jan 26, 2006

Sal, the only reason that I didn't get into the static discharge issue is that static discharge, while possible with paper, is far less common than with film. I was not discounting it.

PE

Mark Layne · Jan 26, 2006

I have had a box of Agfa Classic with pepper spots

Mark

Daniel Lawton · Jan 30, 2006

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I processed some more sheets and there is definitely something going on here. Ilford and Kodak paper come out perfect so I'm pretty sure I can rule out bad chem. I'll see if I can contact someone from Kentmere since I have had PM's from other people who have had nearly identical issues with batches of Kentmere paper and provided very detailed info on these defects. In no way was I trying to smear Kentmere. Their VC paper can produce truly stunning results and looks great. I just wanted to gather the opinions of others and see if maybe this paper had any specific requirements that necessitated a change in my processing routine. Thanks again.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 5, 2007

I have been using Kentmere Bromide recently and noticed that this paper's emulsion seems rather fragile compared to the other papers I have on hand.

To make a comparison, I handled wet prints on Bromide and on Nuance, and it was almost impossible for me to scratch the surface of Nuance without alot of pressure. Bromide's emulsion nearly melts under the nail given a scratch strong enough, like a rough squeegee swipe.

I wouldn't really call that a defect in my case, just fragility.

Shawn Dougherty · Feb 5, 2007

mhv said:
I have been using Kentmere Bromide recently and noticed that this paper's emulsion seems rather fragile compared to the other papers I have on hand.

To make a comparison, I handled wet prints on Bromide and on Nuance, and it was almost impossible for me to scratch the surface of Nuance without alot of pressure. Bromide's emulsion nearly melts under the nail given a scratch strong enough, like a rough squeegee swipe.

I wouldn't really call that a defect in my case, just fragility.

I've gone through quite a few sheets of Kentmere Bromide now and never noticed a the fragility either wet or in the heat press. Of course I was used to handling single weight Azo with extra care... Best. Shawn

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 5, 2007

Shawn Dougherty said:
I've gone through quite a few sheets of Kentmere Bromide now and never noticed a the fragility either wet or in the heat press. Of course I was used to handling single weight Azo with extra care... Best. Shawn

One of the things that hinted me to fragility was that a little bit of emulsion had peeled off the edges of some photos, as if it had been gnawed or something.

Shawn Dougherty · Feb 6, 2007

mhv said:
One of the things that hinted me to fragility was that a little bit of emulsion had peeled off the edges of some photos, as if it had been gnawed or something.

Was this all from one batch? I wonder if it is an isolated incident?

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 6, 2007

Shawn Dougherty said:
Was this all from one batch? I wonder if it is an isolated incident?

Well, so far I've only used one 25s package, and I did keep the prints wet for quite a while (overnight soak in water because it was too late for me to finish the job). I've seen this issue with all sheets of the package.

I'll be buying more because I really like the look of the paper, probably a box of 100. If it's from another batch it should confirm or infirm my previous experience.

Shawn Dougherty · Feb 6, 2007

I've have heard that Kentmere is sensitive to excessive water... They recomend washing for 30 to 40 minutes. I'm used about 300 sheets now without issue. I too like the look. I guess Henry Gilpin is using it too. Best. Shawn

Kentmere Defects?

Daniel Lawton

jim appleyard

rrankin

Bob F.

Monophoto

JHannon

Sal Santamaura

Photo Engineer

Sal Santamaura

Photo Engineer

Mark Layne

Daniel Lawton

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

Shawn Dougherty

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

Shawn Dougherty

Michel Hardy-Vallée

Membership Council

Shawn Dougherty

Kentmere Defects?

Membership Council

Membership Council

Membership Council

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency