Kentmere at Freestyle

Ian Grant · Feb 13, 2005

Jim Moore said:
There is nothing more irritating than when a company introduces a new line and can't order enough product to meet the initial demand.

RRRrrrrrrrrrrggggggg

Be fair

Kentmere are a small, but innovative of late, UK manufacturer how could anyone in the ex colony predict such good sales of a new introduction.

I've used Kentmere papers for well over 30 years, they have always been superb. Your getting a better choice than we can get here.

It may well be that sales in US will allow us here to have a greater range available to us too.

Jim Moore · Feb 13, 2005

Ian Grant said:
Be fair

Kentmere are a small, but innovative of late, UK manufacturer how could anyone in the ex colony predict such good sales of a new introduction.

I've used Kentmere papers for well over 30 years, they have always been superb. Your getting a better choice than we can get here.

It may well be that sales in US will allow us here to have a greater range available to us too.

How am I being unfair? All I said that it's extremely irritating.

How do you feel when a local company advertises something on sale and when you go to the store they don't have it in stock??

Same thing..

Jim

Ian Grant · Feb 13, 2005

Jim Moore said:
How am I being unfair? All I said that it's extremely irritating.

How do you feel when a local company advertises something on sale and when you go to the store they don't have it in stock??

Jim

My guess is they had adequate stock but demand outstripped expectatons.

And for reasons well outside their comtrol. I mean Ilford and Forte going into reciership.

You need to try it, I mean Importing and Exporting, as far as the UK and EU is concerned they (the Useless USA) treat us the same as a third world country

Jim Moore · Feb 13, 2005

Ian Grant said:
(the Useless USA)

I think that comment is COMPLETELY uncalled for...

mikewhi · Feb 13, 2005

From a consumer's point of view, it is fair to expect things to be in stock when they're announced. I see at least one person got some.......

But I understand Kentmere is a small shop and may do limited-production runs of various papers, or whatever. I am just very very pleased they have put out a high-quality bromide paper!! I always loved the original Zone VI Brilliant made in France and I hope this is at least as good.

Like Ian says, maybe increased demand here in the (highly useful) USA will help out the photographers on the other side of the pond, too. We'd all benefit if this product takes off.

All I can do is wait until April for my order to some in, I guess.....

-Mike

BTW, can we leave this a marketing\technical discussion and leave the USA-bashing out of it? It doesn't help anything at all, except get people to update their ignore lists.

Jim Moore · Feb 13, 2005

mikewhi said:
BTW, can we leave this a marketing\technical discussion and leave the USA-bashing out of it? It doesn't help anything at all, except get people to update their ignore lists.

Mike,

I agree 100%.

My original statement was simply to say that when a company advertised a product and does not have that product in stock it is irritating. I was not trying to "Bash" Kentmere or Freestyle. I think it's great that Kentmere is making such wonderful papers and Freestyle is the US dealer for them.

When you read the Ads in your local Sunday paper and go to a store to buy something that was advertised and it is not in stock, is that not irritating?

Anyone who takes my statement as otherwise is a little to sensitive in my opinion.

Jim

Jim Chinn · Feb 13, 2005

I agree that it is an irritating situation, but i think we need to give Freestyle and Kentmere some slack.

I understand the issues faced by a small manufacturer making product(s) for a market that is currently in a state of flux. You can gauge the potential demand and research the market for your products. But in today's world, a small shop cannot afford to have on hand an over abundance of raw materials or components as inventory stock.

Kentmere simply misread the initial demand for its products in the US. Prudence would also suggest that until they can determine what the steady demand will be, they will not go out and spend a grreat deal of capital to gear up production. 6 months to a year from now you probably will not have the supply issues as they will be able to match production with demand.

On a side note, I think this is a situation we are going to have to start living with regards to other companies from time to time. Untill the decline in demand for traditional products levels off at a predictable percentage, companies will err on the side of not meeting demand on occasion as opposed to sitting on inventory that they may have to move at a loss later.

mikewhi · Mar 26, 2005

Just an update. I got a call from a very nice lady from Freestyle, the head of their telephone marketing dept. She said my delivery date for Kentmere Bromide has been pushed back from mid-April to maybe mid-May or early May. So, if anyone else is waiting for a mid-April shipment and you haven't been contacted you may wait a few more weeks, too.

I really am impressed with the phone call and the fact that she updated me. I don't think I've had a company do anything so helpful in a long time.

-Mike

Earl Dunbar · Mar 27, 2005

Jim Moore said:
Mike,

I agree 100%.

My original statement was simply to say that when a company advertised a product and does not have that product in stock it is irritating. I was not trying to "Bash" Kentmere or Freestyle. I think it's great that Kentmere is making such wonderful papers and Freestyle is the US dealer for them.

When you read the Ads in your local Sunday paper and go to a store to buy something that was advertised and it is not in stock, is that not irritating?

Anyone who takes my statement as otherwise is a little to sensitive in my opinion.

Jim

Actually, it may be irritating, but the implication of your statement was that in some way the company advertising the product for sale somehow did something wrong. Firstly, ads are often planned and placed before inventory is received. Secondly, problems of production or even transit may limit the seller's stock, which is totally outside their control. Third, despite their best efforts, they may have misjudged demand and not ordered enough stock. If someone learns about the impending inventory and places an advance order for a lot of stock, that's out of their control.

Anyway, life is to short to get irritated over such relatively trival matters, it's not heart healthy, etc.

Cheers,

Earl

mikewhi · Apr 10, 2005

mikewhi said:
Just an update. I got a call from a very nice lady from Freestyle, the head of their telephone marketing dept. She said my delivery date for Kentmere Bromide has been pushed back from mid-April to maybe mid-May or early May. So, if anyone else is waiting for a mid-April shipment and you haven't been contacted you may wait a few more weeks, too.

I really am impressed with the phone call and the fact that she updated me. I don't think I've had a company do anything so helpful in a long time.

-Mike

Quick update: I received my order of Kentmere Bromide 8x10 and 16x20 today. If you're waiting for yours, it may be on it's way.

-Mike

Jeremy · Apr 10, 2005

mikewhi said:
Quick update: I received my order of Kentmere Bromide 8x10 and 16x20 today. If you're waiting for yours, it may be on it's way.

-Mike

Woohoo! Let us know it works out for you, I'm really interested in this paper. What grades did you end up buying?

mikewhi · Apr 10, 2005

Jeremy Moore said:
Woohoo! Let us know it works out for you, I'm really interested in this paper. What grades did you end up buying?

Hi:

I got Gr 2 & 3 in 8x10 and gr 2 in 16x20.

-Mike

mikewhi · May 8, 2005

Hi:

I've started printing with the Kentmere Bromide paper tonight. I printed a calibrated Kodak step wedge onto the paper to determine the DR of the paper. It came out to at least 1.20, maybe a little more if viewed under brighter lighting. But holding it a normal distance from a 100 watt bulb with a shade on it, that's what the DR is.

The surface of the paper is smooth glossy.

The paper is DW, but it has an objectionable curve to it. When I opened a box of 8x10, the paper bowed to the extent that the lid doesn't fit back onto the box. The paper seems to curl after drying, but I haven't air dried any on screens yet. But I expect that they will curl a lot. Also, the packaging for the paper is very cheap. I got 4 boxes and all the cardboard boxes were pretty flimsy and all were torn at some point. Fortunately, the paper is wrapped in heavy duty black plastic bags inside.

I will determine the DR of Grade 3 next and post that info. I will print more in the morning and post my impressions, but I am very pleased with the DR of Grade 2.

-Mike

mikewhi · May 8, 2005

I checked the DR of Grade 3 and oddly, it came out as 1.2 also. That is from pure black to pure white. Tonal seperation in the whites is slightly greater with the Grade 2 but to my eye, the seperation in the blacks is the same.

I'll make a print from a full-scale negative with a little more than 1.2 of DR and see how they come out.

I'm processing in Dektol 1:2 mixed fresh.

-Mike

John Cook · May 8, 2005

I just ordered a bunch of Art Classic triple-weight graded matte textured warmtone chlorobromide paper (What a mouthfull) from Marv Keller at Freestyle.

Hope the paper is as nice as he is. First time I have dealt with Freestyle. While on their site, don't forget to look under "Specialty Papers" (not just fiber and RC) where all the Kentmere good stuff is located.

They shipped it out via Fedex the very same day. Said another shipment is due from the factory in a few days. Nice to have something readily available for a change.

This paper should react very nicely with Formulary 106 warm developer, as well as with KRST. I'm planning to try my hand at Marshall's oils.

Haven't done a lot of personal printing on fiber since DuPont discontinued Varilour. Never too old to relearn...

ann · May 8, 2005

john, would really like to get some feedback about the 106 developer with this paper.

we tested that developer last fall with a lot of papers (not Kentmere) and there was no change in tone. Talking with PF, we decided the modern papers were not sensitive to this developer, so it will be interesting to see if you get a nice brown tone as one got with the older papers.

John Cook · May 8, 2005

Ann,

As we speak, everything is supposed to be on UPS or Fedex trucks on its way here to Massachusetts.

My very unscientific web research seems to indicate that 106 is effective only on chloro-bromide, not bromide, papers. This is apparently something of a crapshoot, as manufacturers do not reveal the precise ratio between the chloro and the bromide content. So some such chloro-bromide papers will likely react more strongly than others to this developer.

I will definitely look up this thread again and report in, when I have the test results in about a week or two.

ann · May 8, 2005

thanks, john
look forward to hearing about your results. we tested about 15 different papers, mostly warmtone to being with, with no luck.

the "expert" at PF, thought this developer worked best with the old Kodak stuff
but don't have any of that lying around, so really can test out the theory

Kentmere at Freestyle

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